“The president single-handedly wiped out Americans’ retirement savings overnight and subjected businesses to intense whiplash with his increasingly erratic and chaotic policies that continue to drive consumer and business uncertainty.”
All we need now is a massive man made natural disaster to strike to make it another great depression. Luckily there isn’t any terrible climate related issue that’s on the verge of causing a catastrophe or anything.
So repubs are alientating themselves from their traditional business base too. That leaves what? Nut jobs in rvs covered in trump signs?
I’d love to see donvict, fElon, Lutnick, Thiel, Vance and especially Navarro forced to live in poverty for a while.
60% chance of recession, 40% chance of a depression. “The Greatest Depression”
A golden age is coming!
Even if things just to recover to where they started trumsk will claim it as a giant win.
Tremendous, really. Like nothing ever seen before.
Even if Trump removes every tariff a recession is almost certainly coming. Short to longer term planning, hiring, building, etc will certainly slow down and that kind of things is widespread. People lose jobs, people don’t get hired, people choose not to start a business or invest money in the USA, etc.
The MAGA Nazis are fully embracing AI, and full automation is on its way. All the tech exists right now to fully automate every fast food outlet in America. The could have the supplies stored in robotic warehouses, robotically loaded into self-driving trucks, unloaded into the restaurants robotically, prepared robotically, and delivered to the customer, who ordered it on an app or kiosk. All without a single human touching it anywhere along the way.
Corporations will become wildly profitable with greatly reduced cost of labor and related labor issues (HR, benefits, discrimination, etc), but the additional result will be the loss of millions of entry level and unskilled jobs. These are the jobs where young people learn how to exist in the workplace, where households can have a second income, where people can become managers and make decent livings, etc. And that is only one industry. Every single industry will be impacted by automation and AI, with an enormous net loss of jobs, leading to a permanent unemployment rate in the double digits, possibly as high as 30-40%, or even higher. The impact on the government and our economy of the loss of income tax revenue from those lost jobs is a whole other conversation altogether.
What will happen to all those unemployed people? There seems to be only two solutions: Universal Basic Income, or reducing the population by the permanent unemployment rate. It’s pretty predictable which solution each party would choose, and also pretty predictable how they would choose to accomplish their solution.
To put this in terms Civ VI players will understand:
MAGA wants a synthetic technocracy
If Europe follows the Estonian model it will be a digital democracy.
China is doing optimization imperative.
UBI is never going to come to the united states. Whats reasonably to going to happen is an uprising and the brutal suppression of it by the police state a la Tianenmen square style or even worse. US have done this against people of color multiple times in its history. This time others will join as well.
Yep. Not sure why you are getting downvoted.
There’s only profit to be made if people have money to spend.
And people will have money, If they take a credit and work for less, then an AI would cost, to have enough for the pay the credit card interests.
Not to forget the ability to let middle management go when there are no workers to be managed as well as the people for low level optimization and planning.
This is a major thing and the reactions are unfortunately downvotes.
The ripple effects will be huge, and touch every industry and every citizen.
I’ll gladly take the downvotes if it gets people thinking about the reality of the future the Sociopathic Oligarchs have planned for us.
China is likely to get AI before the US does. Innovation here is slowing down.
Companies are drooling at the prospect of replacing workers - it was several years ago when I attended a talk that was about how mining companies are seeking to automate all of it - this around the time when people like donvict were talking up coal-mining jobs and of course the magoffs piled on - if people looking to prop up that industry think it will result in lots of good-paying jobs with dignity, I have a bridge to sell them.
And that’s just one instance…
Mining is a terrible job for humans to do. Automating it has saved millions from death by Black Lung or cave ins or a thousand other things that can kill you in a mine.
The problem is with the notion that everyone needs a job. We could employ everyone if we paid them to dig a hole and fill it in every day. We could be living like retirees, but all of us need to go to a job for eight hours because an anti-Semite wanted to steal workers from his competitors.
It’s 100% they are just too scared to say that
You can’t say anything is 100% with a chaotic and erratic president. There’s always a chance that Trump will undo everything next week and things will stabilise for a short while. That chance might be very low, but it effectively invalidates 100% prediction.
I’m afraid you’re wrong here actually. Being arbitrary and mercurial means no one will risk investing in the US, as policies may be created or undone at any moment. The only way this goes away is simply that he goes away. The risk is what is creating the certainty here.
It still isn’t 100%
There’s also an even more remote chance Republicans in Congress grow a spine and take away Trump’s ability to set tariffs or the Supreme Court rules the “emergency” invalid.
Ok, 95%. Trump undoing things doesn’t actually help “confidence in the market” though, it might even cause or chaos shorter term.
The blood is on gop hands and any billionaires backing him
And the people who voted for him. And the people that didn’t vote.
In case you haven’t seen it there has been blood all over the place for years
The Federal Reserve now projects -3.7% GDP growth in Q1 2025. The 2008 recession was -2.6%, and covid was -2.2, for comparison.
Consider this too…Q1 ended on March 31st. They are predicting that drop before all this tariff shit got started.
Hell, Biden was president for 20 of the 90 days in that quarter.
So you’re saying it’s Bidens fault! /s
That… Doesn’t seem good if I’m being totally honest
-3.7% so far.
Do you have a source? Closest of what I can find is GDPNow https://www.atlantafed.org/cqer/research/gdpnow . But it is neither an official estimate nor from the federal reserve.
And note that the Atlanta Fed model has been widely misinterpreted. Imports have surged in anticipation of tariffs, which skews the model (i.e. the exports-imports factor in GDP).
That is the federal reserve. It’s composed of 12 district banks and that’s one of them.
I thought federal reserve refers to the federal reserve board. And I am also surprised that the fedral reserve banks’ website don’t get .gov domains.
Not trying to argue with you, the name “federal reserve” is inheritly ambiguous. I am just stating my reason for my original post.
Yeah, it’s definitely confusing, and the news is always loose with the terminology.
The Federal Reserve is the entire system. The board sets policy and the 12 district banks execute it. It’s this weird quasi-governmental thing. Nominally it’s supposed to be independent and not part of the government even though it was created by an act of Congress and the board is appointed by the president. The idea is that by making it independent, it’ll be free from political influence and can focus on its mission, including making tough decisions that will cause pain in the short term.
And I am also surprised that the fedral reserve banks’ website don’t get .gov domains.
The fed is explicitly not a government agency. It is meant to be independent by design.
How was Thursday and Friday not a recession? I lost > 10% of my 401k in 2 days.
It took 4 years to get to where it was since I stopped contributing right after the 2020 panic. 4 years of happily let my money do what it should, BAM wiped out in 2 fucking days.
I’ve Lost 15% since this shitshow of president started fucking with things.
Came here to note that S&P has been down over 16% since the clown took the WH and the circus started back up again.
10% so far unfortunately.
Recessions officially require a slowdown of an economy over a longer period of time. Usually the stock market has nothing to do with it, though it can be a canary in the coal mine for it.
A recession has more to do with unemployment rate rising, negative GDP growth and consumer spending indexes falling.
Essentially it’s just a fancy way of saying the economy is slowing down in every category.
The stock market is a rich person’s playground in this day and age mostly.
The stock market is a rich person’s playground in this day and age mostly.
Unfortunately, if they do poorly, THAT definitely “trickles down”.
it’s not an exact measure, but the rule of thumb for a recession is 2 quarters of negative growth
there is 7 quarters remaining. Dumpf will bring the greatest depression in american history and if reserve currency moves away from dollar, there will be wars. Thucydides trap is here and better be prepared.
I wonder why they waited until just after the first quarter. Hmmmmm…
Get your 401k out of stocks for now. Most plans have money market or other options you can exchange for.
That’s the dumbest advice ever! That’s how you lose all your money. Recession is the perfect time to buy even more stocks and shares. Don’t get out, get in!
Recession is a good time - at the bottom.
We’re still at the top.
You guys have fun losing all your money, though. Like the person I replied to complained about.
What are you going to convert your stocks into Euros? Renminbi? USD? Bitcoin? There is just a lot of uncertainty, and I wouldn’t recommend anyone selling everything.
Panic drop out of the market after stocks went down some percent, great advice.
Just do nothing and keep your rates (or however US 401k works).
Time in the market beats timing the market
I guess. Other option is to ride it all the way down. I got mostly out after the election. I got the rest of the way out this year.
So much for the revolution being bloodless, huh?
Not long until MAGAs call the stock market woke.
Alternate TRUTH market incoming
They already had indexes which avoided ‘dei’ companies… Don’t ask me how I know…
How do you know?
Giving family members financial advice. They were in a terrible fund, and wanted to move. But had to make sure it wasn’t too a company supporting dei…
I’d love to ask them to define a “company supporting dei”?
It’s in the company’s charter explicitly for many investing companies.
Bummer
If they say 60% odds when it’s obviously 100%, how does one go about making money on the spread?
I think the reason it’s not 100% is that Trump could say “lol jk guys I’m not actually going to destroy the world economy to own the libs” or Congress could theoretically stop it (lol) but yeah I think it’s probably optimistic because even if the tariffs don’t go into effect the chaos caused by them is already happening. I work in chemical manufacturing and the outlook seems very bleak, but most of my coworkers are Trumpists so they’re just in denial about how bad it’s going to be while management is tiptoeing around the fact that they’re already laying people off because of Trump’s expected antics.
The reason is that Trump can reverse the tariffs tomorrow. Or a court could freeze them if it rules trump acted illegally.
But it does seem that they might be doing some serious insider trading on the market’s volatility. Its funny that until 2024 this was illegal. But the supreme court wanted this. So here we are.
Even if he would reverse the tariffs, the rest of the world is tired of this shit! The US showed that they are no reliable partner and always 4 years away from a possible circus.
There’s a ‘Recession this year?’ market on kalshi that is somehow also giving about 60% odds. I’m feeling good about my $20 bet.
Forex? If you have USD, you could change it to EUR for example. You could also buy bonds or crypto or whatever, though US bonds might be falling too.
Personally I just keep all my money in funds and robo-advisors. This way there’s someone whose job it is to allocate the money, and they hear the news and can act faster than you.
This is against what crypto bros are saying, but from what I see that whenever stock is crashing so is Bitcoin.
That’s the thing here. Bitcoin is holding up fairly well so far
If it can prove that it returns better gains than stocks AND weathers downturns better than stocks. Well…
Btc is range bound same as it’s been for months now if looking at the euro or cad. Hardly a crash but some folks are cashing out for sure, driving prices down.
Are you certain that the samething isn’t going to happen to foreign currencies? I feel like the U.S. enters recession, the global economy enters recession.
Are there any economies that are truly self-sufficient?
The rest of the world is hopefully coming together a bit and doing trade without the US.
Are there any economies that are truly self-sufficient?
China is trying. I feel like at least some industries there would be fine even if the US collapses.
Considering just how massive China is, they probably have the best shot at a truly independent “internal world” economy
Traditional wisdom says bonds go up when stocks go down, but I don’t even trust T bills right now. Those are the most reliable security there is. Well, were.
Trump is gonna try his best to make the best depression ever.
It’s like he is purposely doing this to punish Americans for not reelecting him in 2020.
I think it’s worse than that. I think he legitimately thinks this is a good idea, and the sycophants that surround him are too afraid to oppose him.
No, it’s worse than even that. The sycophants surrounding him fall into two camps: the uber-wealthy who want to buy businesses, houses, everything for a song, and see this as a golden opportunity since they have more than enough wealth to ride this out; and the loons who believe the end times are almost upon us and will let Trump do whatever he wants as long as he triggers the Rapture.
Really, there’s three groups, because there’s also a small subset (Zuckerberg is one of them, Elon is another) who fall into both camps. They dream of the day that the world implodes, the governments dissolve into chaos, the environment turns horrible and hostile.
Then they will retreat into their lavish bunkers (Zuckerberg’s is in Hawaii) with their servants and security guards (their loyalty guaranteed by shock collars and their families being held hostage) and wait for everything to subside. And then they will emerge with their loyal army to build their perfect paradise, with them at the head of it, of course.
Seriously, they write long think-pieces and even whole books about this stuff.
He heard “great depression” and took it as a challenge
Yuge Depression. Like sinkhole levels.
“great depression”
Well… at least we know now what he meant by make America “great” again.
Greater Depression
People say it’s the greatest!
Trump Depression isn’t only for Tiffany
Make Depression Great Again
Make Great Depression Again
FTFY
God this is bleak.
I’m not even in the US. This is a global recession.
“[Consumers] are not even going to the grocery store and paying more for vegetables because there’s none available from Mexico, or going to Whole Foods, for example, and finding the big sections of fresh fruit are being shut down. They haven’t really felt the full impact [yet], and they’re already saying something isn’t right,” Bethune says.
It sounds like shit is going to get real, really quick. As in next week?
Trump isn’t going to back down either - good or bad he always just doubles down. If Mexican producers stop selling to the US he’s just going to go to war right?
As an aside, I had been wondering what the US gov is going to do with all that tariff revenue… but now it seems kinda clear that consumers will be buying a lot less stuff, so there will be less income tax revenue anyway.
Maybe that’s the plan? Start a trade war that will inevitably lead to a real war? It sets a lot more precedent for the lean on all of the marshal law type powers he’s chasing after.
The U.S. does make a lot of money at war. Kinda makes you wonder why few of Leon’s federal spending cuts have been in the DOD? 🤔
I dont understand who is downvoting you and why. Everything you said is logical
They don’t make as much money when they are fighting a war. Especially on American soil.
Yeah but how could they do money alone? Isn’t world economy a multiplayer game? They cut all their allies… I don’t think value can be created in a vacuum; where would they get the war money from?
