• Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    151·
    1 day ago

    I lean socialist, but yeah fuck this. Ukraine should be liberated as much as Palestine, Nepal, and the Philippines. Fuck authoritarian simps.

    The ONLY conflict that should concern us all is the class conflict.

    If so called “leftists” think that solidarity doesn’t extend to their favorite oppressed people, then they aren’t leftists. They are fascists in disguise who associate with an in-group juxtaposed against an out-group. Leftists must realize that EVERYONE is part of the in-group, even fascists themselves. For if their material lives were well nourished and enriched, they wouldn’t feel the need to hate.

    Now, I have heard that there has been and may still be corruption in the Ukrainian government. That corruption doesn’t give permission for other countries to invade and take over, though. If anything, internal affairs should be dealt between the opposing sides PEACEFULLY and DEMOCRATICALLY. If things do come to violence, those internal seeking to restore a democratic system of government should be supported more by those external than the opposing side of corruption.

  • Wolf@lemmy.todayEnglish
    11·
    1 day ago

    I wish people would stop referring to Tankies and authoritarian regimes as leftists. If we stop entertaining the hallucination that they are- then maybe places like Wikipedia will start labeling them correctly as right wing.

    From the very beginning of the terms “Left” and “Right” to describe the political spectrum, which originated in pre-revolutionary war France, the Left has always been about freedom from Tyranny and the Right has been pro-government (ruling class) control.

    Maybe the USSR did start out as revolutions of the proletariat, but once they were controlled by increasingly authoritarian leadership, that should have flipped them from left to right on the political spectrum. In a sane world that’s exactly what would have happened. Guess who’s best interests it was to mislabel the USSR, the PRC and the DPRK as ‘Leftists’? Ill give you one guess. If you said capitalists and the right wing in Western democracies- That’s a bingo! And of course they are going to label themselves as ‘left wing’. To admit otherwise would be to expose the whole lie. So in a weird example of cold war cooperation between the East and West, that fiction has continued.

    The only reason that Communism and Socialism were correctly labeled as ‘Left’ ideologies in the first place is because, implemented correctly, they both offer less control by the ‘ruling class’. Socialism was meant to return the power to the people, and communism was meant to abolish the state completely. Authoritarian regimes run counter to both those goals. You will NEVER abolish the state by strengthening the state. That makes about as much sense as ‘trickle down economics’. Hey maybe if we give the billionaires all the money, they’ll give us a little back in return. Spoiler alert, no they wont.

    /rant

    • vga@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      2·
      15 hours ago

      From the very beginning of the terms “Left” and “Right” to describe the political spectrum, which originated in pre-revolutionary war France, the Left has always been about freedom from Tyranny and the Right has been pro-government (ruling class) control.

      This got complicated however in early 1900s with political philosophers like Friedrich Hayek and others, after which Right can have meant liberalism and as such also anti-government.

  • ilost7489@lemmy.caEnglish
    331·
    2 days ago

    I got banned from .ml because I said China and North Korea were oppressive regimes. Apparently that means I am a “fascist sympathizer”

      • ilost7489@lemmy.caEnglish
        6·
        2 days ago

        I was actually misremembering it seems (I was mixing 2 bans together) I got banned for this comment for the ambiguous “rule 1”. It was a different community that banned me for being a “nazi defender”

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      821·
      2 days ago

      China and North Korea were oppressive regimes

      Apparently that means I am a “fascist sympathizer”

      It certainly signals you as a mark. Can’t count how many conservative trolls have used “They want to make America into North Korea!” to terrify Americans into rejecting everything from Canadian style health care to Haitian earthquake refugees to Columbia’s anti-genocide protest movement.

      Get away from this rhetoric and quit being terrified of places on the other side of the planet you’ve only ever heard about as Scary Ghost Stories. You’re only a few steps off panicking over Venezuelan Biker Gangs and Ground Zero Mosques.

      • Taldan@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        17 hours ago

        Why did you post a picture of the North Korean talking head that makes up stories about North Korea for money?

        Having seen North Korea for myself, I can assure you it is an oppressive regime

        quit being terrified of places on the other side of the planet you’ve only ever heard about as Scary Ghost Stories

        I’m curious, what is your experience with North Korea? Have you ever talked to any North Koreans yourself? Ever seen the country? Or are you relying solely on things you’ve heard online?

        It is a bit silly that they called China an oppressive regime though. Much of that is misinformation. A good example being the social credit score system. Many people actually believe it exists as some dystopian system, despite the fact it is effectively the same as similar systems in place in the US (credit score, points on license, no fly lists, etc. - a hodgepodge of disconnected systems)

        China is a bit more oppressive than the US, but it’s far closer to the US than it is to places like North Korea, Eritrea, or Turkmenistan. Especially lately as the US has shifted noticeable towards more centralized governmental control

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11·
          16 hours ago

          China is a bit more oppressive than the US

          Debatable, pre-WoT. Now the US is unequivocally worse.

          But the perk of living in China is largely the incredibly quality of life for an enormous chunk of the population. The downside is losing the degree to which you can shitpost on the Internet.

      • YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.todayEnglish
        104·
        2 days ago

        I want you to reply to me “The Tianamen Square Massacre happened the third of June in the year 1989. And the government murdered 300 peaceful protestors that day, then had the fucking audacity to claim 5,000 of their soldiers were injured which is fucking laughable and expected of oppressive regimes.”

        Or something along those lines.

      • ilost7489@lemmy.caEnglish
        72·
        2 days ago

        So your solution is to… say that China and North Korea are wonderful, tolerant regimes? What is your point lmao

        Edit: I guess it’d probably be to “just ignore it it’s fine”

          • ilost7489@lemmy.caEnglish
            42·
            1 day ago

            Except it isn’t and you can acknowledge that fact without being a “fascist sympathizer”. If someone is going to draw false parallels, ignoring how bad the regimes are isn’t going to change that

  • spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    252·
    1 day ago

    I had no idea so much of lemmy.ml was run and populated by a bunch of paid Russian agents and their useful idiots. One guy had only been on Lemmy for a couple of months and had already posted hundreds of propaganda pieces from Russian state sponsored new sources. Another poster specialized on propaganda from other sources but was just as prolific.

    lemmy.ml is the toilet of Lemmy.

    • vga@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      2·
      15 hours ago

      Lemmy is open, and that unfortunately means that it’s easy and cheap to abuse.

  • FlyingCircus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    312·
    18 hours ago

    It’s wild to me that we’re on the brink of a global collapse into fascism and y’all are trying to kick out the group of people who are historically the most effective at fighting fascists. Communists by far killed the most Nazis in WW2.

    Also, aren’t you guys the ones who love supporting the lesser evil? Don’t you think you should hold your nose and ally with anyone who wants to fight fascists?

    • cm0002@piefed.worldOPEnglish
      151·
      17 hours ago

      Tankies love to conflate their authoritarian brand of communism as the only communism or the only “true left”

      But you can absolutely be a communist without simping for authoritarian governments.

      Substituting a right-wing authoritarian system for a “left-wing” authoritarian system isnt going to solve anything

    • vga@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      3·
      15 hours ago

      The absolute numbers are on your side certainly, but you don’t generally win wars by the number of deaths. For instance, the current Russian Fascists would have lost the Ukraine war by now if that was true. Also in the Vietnam War, USA caused way more casualties but completely lost the war. Both wars in Afghanistan, same thing. Latest US invasion to Iraq wasn’t exactly a victory even though they killed a lot of people there.

      Also, we are not yet in the phase where communists are killing nazis. We’re currently in the phase where communists are de facto allied with the fascists against liberals and centrists. Like – if you remember your history – happened also in the 1900s before Hitler backstabbed Stalin.

  • hunnybubny@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    124·
    2 days ago

    Their whole identity is being built around fighting nazis. And bringing back traditional values.

    Just like conservative values are being brought back to fight wokness.

    Just like israel has to eradicate Palestine.

    Just like nazis had to exterminate the jews.

    It is all fascism.

    Tankies are fascists that deluded themselves into thinking they are lefties.

  • HexesofVexes@lemmy.worldEnglish
    11·
    2 days ago

    I mean, I blocked the instance because a lot of the content is just ragebait, historical revisionism, or just plain nonsense.

    Best option is to ignore them, let them fester, then watch the inevitable infighting as they factionalise with some popcorn.

  • MushuChupacabra@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1522·
    3 days ago

    I never heard of tankies until I got to lemmy.

    The first thing that I ever saw from them was a meme about how Joseph Stalin had very little in the way of material things when he died, despite the position he held.

    And I was like Bitch, I care about Stalin’s earthly possessions in the exact same way that I care about Hitler’s painting with watercolors skill set.

    This got me thinking about my western canadian upbringing through the back half of the Cold War. A steady stream of western indictrination and perspective. I recall zero words spoken about Joseph Stalin’s personal life or spending habits.

    So who the fuck was that meme aimed at? Who is out there, just wanting to love Stalin, but can’t on account of thinking he lived in opulence? Who is out there heaping scorn on Stalin for what he owned or didn’t?

    That’s when I realized that tankies are just a combination of Flat Earthers/Sovereign Citizens. It’s all bullshit, and the point is to be exceedingly difficult to talk to.

    • CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      25·
      2 days ago

      I too, have never heard of tankies before joining lemmy.

      Imagine my surprise, when i, a guy from a post-soviet country, where the fans of soviets are endangered species, see them all fanboying over dictators of the past century over here lol

      • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
        3·
        1 day ago

        sorry you have to experience that

        It’s interesting how almost all Tankies come from the US

      • Dr. Moose@lemmy.worldEnglish
        211·
        2 days ago

        The best part they’re from countries that never even remotely experienced soviet horrors. The lead tankies are from Netherlands and many other appear to be from flyover states of the US lol

        and obvious it’s invaded by ruzi bots

      • Seth Taylor@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        1 day ago

        This is so relatable. I’m from a former communist country. The first time I encountered a large group of tankies was on Reddit around the TikTok ban. It was stunning. It had me thinking “My god, the far-right will put us all in the same boat as these weirdos and sink the boat”

    • teslasaur@lemmy.worldEnglish
      13·
      2 days ago

      There is a funny story about the real currency of power that involves Stalin. The story goes that Stalin and his party officials came upon a beggerwoman on the side of the road. She asked them if they could spare some money. In a rare moment of generosity from Stalin he went for his wallet, only to find it empty. He asked the officials if they had any money, but all of their purses sounded empty.

      Those in power do not need money, as everything they ever want will be given to them.

    • cm0002@piefed.worldOPEnglish
      571·
      3 days ago

      There are actually plenty of tankies on Reddit, but with Reddit you have to pretty much seek it out because of the massive user base

      Legend goes that dessalines actually started Lemmy because their Reddit main got perm banned because he went a lil too tankie

      • SkyezOpen@lemmy.worldEnglish
        131·
        2 days ago

        I remember a huge dustup maybe 4 years ago where tankies infiltrated and tried to take over a bunch of left leaning subs within a few weeks. They do it regularly too. I’ve noticed quite a few db0 accounts that are around 9 months old spewing the usual tankie shit.

        • LustyArgonian@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          16 hours ago

          2017 killed LateStageCapitalism, all those mods got replaced with bad faith actors

          I got permabanned for suggesting people assert their civil rights and learn about civil rights

        • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
          3·
          1 day ago

          They do it regularly too. I’ve noticed quite a few db0 accounts that are around 9 months old spewing the usual tankie shit.

          We’ve been noticing the same. your thoughts?

          • SkyezOpen@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            1 day ago

            Pretty sure it’s just an attempt to normalize their talking points by worming them into discussions. Spreading to different instances is a reaction to grad and hex being largely defederated and ml names being a huge red flag for a bunch of people. I think the reality is that even if everyone defederates every tankie instance, they’ll keep creeping in through different instances. I don’t see a solution beyond simply keeping an eye out and tagging/moderating individuals as they pop up.

              • SkyezOpen@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                1 day ago

                Who’s they? The broader fediverse or mods or both? I guess in either case the thing to do would be tag the users, downvote, and call out their bad talking points. Hopefully enough people pile on to show that we won’t swallow their bullshit.

                It’s tough when they’re clever about it. It took me months to realize what cowbee was doing. Luckily most of them aren’t that clever.

      • MushuChupacabra@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        3 days ago

        Legend goes that dessalines actually started Lemmy because their Reddit main got perm banned because he went a lil too tankie

        Hey dessalines, care to chime in on why you are the way you are?

        • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
          182·
          2 days ago

          Tankies never venture into this community, despite this being a place where they can freely discuss their viewpoints. It’s because they know their positions don’t hold any weight, and they’re afraid of being scrutinised.

        • Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish
          5·
          2 days ago

          alot of tankies probably got banned from reddit for the same reason they are getting blocked/defederated here. plus we get conservatives too trickling from time to time.

          • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
            2·
            1 day ago

            I’ve honestly never seen a conservative on Lemmy. But then again I don’t tend to browse much of the fediverse as it’s all yankslop

      • Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish
        1·
        2 days ago

        tankies get astroturfed by right wingers so much they are pretty much invisible. and the ones on the “left” but not extreme left filters them enough for the same results.

        • Rose@lemmy.zipEnglish
          31·
          2 days ago

          What’s the “extreme left”? Anarchists? Why would they support authoritarianism?

          • Hanrahan@slrpnk.netEnglish
            7·
            2 days ago

            Indeed as an Anarchist, tankies and maga conservatives are the mirror of each other, it’s just who holds the hammer and gun that differs.

            • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
              73·
              2 days ago

              You won’t see a tankie doing a nazi salute, but you will find them spouting the same antisemitism

              • Hector@lemmy.worldEnglish
                33·
                2 days ago

                Anti-Semitism as a phrase is broken, maybe you should find a new word to use that isn’t poisoned. Did you know that the Arab peoples are semitic?

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.worldEnglish
      10·
      2 days ago

      I envy you. I live in Hungary, and for a long while the only leftists I knew about were tankies. They’re just as annoying offline as online.

    • Hector@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      2 days ago

      My first interactions on lemmy here were with a large pod of tankies on memes of all places.

      It was not clear to me they were anything but super politically correct Americans so I argued with them for like a hundred different replies before one of them told me, then they kept brigading me and following me on to other posts and such.

      Then my phone started acting wonky and I got afraid I was getting hacked by them so I made a new account, I do not know if they can find you from Lemmy but I still have both.

    • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      151·
      2 days ago

      Kind of likewise; coming from Reddit the political weirdos were American conservative types, “Jesus needs more guns to shoot the gays and the poor and the blacks” sort of folks. The idea of fervent fucking Soviets on the English speaking internet was new and instantly boring.

    • NoiseColor @lemmy.worldEnglish
      29·
      3 days ago

      Same here, never heard of them before Lemmy. I was shocked by their illogical statements and behavior. I couldn’t believe anyone could hold such inconsistent beliefs and not just melt their brain, by so many mental gymnastics and plot holes. I still can’t. It just makes way more sense that they are all done kind of weird Russian ai experiment.

      • Zirconium@lemmy.worldEnglish
        17·
        2 days ago

        They kind of betray each other a lot of the times where some say that tiananmen square massacre didn’t happen and others saying that they are color revolutionaries and absolutely deserved it.

        • Droggelbecher@lemmy.worldEnglish
          12·
          2 days ago

          I personally know a born-and-raised Chinese person who’s loyal to the regime. Not even he denies the Uyghur genocide. He just admits that he thinks china should be an ethnostate. I think about that every time I see some keyboard warrier say the genocide is western propaganda.

          • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
            3·
            1 day ago

            I’ve found it very curious how Tankies will apply a coat of liberal paint to authoritarian states like China, Iran and Russia. They don’t realise that diversity and the freedom of self-expression they so love are all largely suppressed in these states.

            very much a chickens for KFC scenario.

          • Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish
            4·
            2 days ago

            asians are pretty hardcore conservatives, at least for the older generation. vietnam, china,etc. thats why you seem them “rallying” with right/white supremacists quite often, also older millennials(35+) tend to gear towards conservatism more than progressivism/left leaning ideology. Or at the most they support some left leaning, but does not like things gay marriage,weed,drugs,etc. i know people that are this way. also notice asians that have at least some religious upbringing, either christianity or buddhism(funny enough) and left the religion partially, but became more right wing when trump came around. i knew someone early in college that was a vietnamese immigrant, he was very PRO-BUSH,war. and yes i am asians.

        • Auth@lemmy.worldEnglish
          8·
          2 days ago

          I’ve seen them saying it was fine because the students wanted to be killed. Insane

      • IronBird@lemmy.worldEnglish
        7·
        2 days ago

        i wish all the stupidity i see in the world was the result of russian misinformation, but that’s almost too optimistic a position to hold in my eyes…guess we’ll see if/when russia collapses from fighting ukraine, if it all just dries up.

        • goat@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
          3·
          1 day ago

          It’s not just Russian troll farms now. Russia, China and Iran have combined their troll farms, and it’s just steamrolling through social media.

          • LustyArgonian@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            16 hours ago

            And India and Iran, all BRICS countries. You can follow via the crypto tickers sometimes, as crypto is intrinsically tied to these bot (human slave) farms - it’s their funding.

        • Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish
          6·
          2 days ago

          putin is funding the troll farms personally, i think it will be the last to collapse before russia does unfortunately.

    • pebbles@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      15·
      3 days ago

      Here’s my 2¢ on how that kinda post might’ve been effective propaganda on me if I just saw it in the background long enough.

      I grew up in America in a conservative area and everyone saw wealth as success and legitness. I now find myself beliving that if you live in excessive luxury that you are part of the problem. I can see how learning Stalin didn’t have much when he died would appeal to a certain leftist in me and changes the emperor tone I originally picture him with.

      I have other issues with Stalin, but maybe if I’d’ve lived on .ml long enough those kinda posts could’ve slowly changed what comes to mind when I think of him.

      • MushuChupacabra@lemmy.worldEnglish
        17·
        3 days ago

        I have other issues with Stalin, but maybe if I’d’ve lived on .ml long enough those kinda posts could’ve slowly changed what comes to mind when I think of him.

        Conservative estimates state that Stalin was directly responsible for twenty million deaths.

        There is no charm offensive that will “slowly change what comes to mind” when thinking of Joseph Stalin.

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
      81·
      3 days ago

      Modern tankies are likely a spook psyop… Both foreign and domestic. They serve a useful purpose for both sides within the online eco systems

    • Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish
      2·
      2 days ago

      i heard it on reddit first surprisingly enough. i always suspect it means extreme belief of whatever sub they were in.

    • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.netEnglish
      3·
      3 days ago

      Some people have made arguments that the leadership of the USSR simply replaced the old capitalist/aristocratic class and had access to their wealth through the levers of state power. I have not investigated the truthfulness of this claim, but I’m guessing this was a response to that talking point.

      • Owl@mander.xyzEnglish
        3·
        3 days ago

        If they don’t have their name written on it, just use the estates and other expensive things all their life it’s technically not theirs. This is the tankie argument

        • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.netEnglish
          12·
          3 days ago

          “The people’s presidential ballroom”. Funny how well aligned out current capitalist leaders and the so-called communists can be.

          • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
            4·
            2 days ago

            Some people go as far to say that US is literally repeating USSR arc in some ways…

            For example COVID is Chernobyl as it exposed that we are essentially ruled by nepo imbeciles. And people with any degree of independent thinking and competence get side lined.

            Food prices and over all stagnation of the working people. Young people who have zero faith in the regime.

  • DicJacobus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    62·
    2 days ago

    Who knew. Vatnik garglers consider anything that is in opposition to Russia and russkiy mir is a nazi /s

  • ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.comEnglish
    442·
    3 days ago

    Lol I just got banned from deprogram for saying the Xi pooh meme wasn’t inherently racist and that people used as a form of mockery of an authoritarian leader… Some idiot actually tried to argue “do you call all heads of state authoritarians or just communists?” Like bro, the only reason I don’t call myself a communist is because I think it doesn’t go far enough…

    But they don’t actually care about communism as a project or theory or even the people it claims to empower; they just want the boot to be on the other foot.