- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
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They want out because it’s stopping to be a market for the US military industries, as Europe increasingly wants to spend domestically. As such, it now has very little interest.
US: We want you to spend more on defence!
Europe: Ok, we will buy more, from our own companies!
US: That’s not what I meant! I’m going home!They wanted to leave during Trump’s first term because it helps Russia’s war with Europe
The increased spending is just meant to make the incumbents unpopular so the Russian backed candidates can win
As directed by Vladamir Putin.
Great!! Fuck right off USA!!! Without you idiotic dipshits in NATO the rest of the aligned countries don’t have to listen to your moronic whining to spend $ on US defense weaponry/planes etc. You won’t be missed and piss off. From Canada’s POV we’re really looking forward to spending billions on Saab Gripens - so we can protect ourselves from you.
Isn’t this the same psycho whose reaction to Minnesota politicians being assassinated was conspiracy theories?
Just removing the US from another world stage
Soon we will be completely irrelevant
Which is the plan
Gonna be as isolated at North Korea by the end of this administration. As trusted too.
I keep getting this sinking feeling that this is all leading up to a precise and coordinated attack of evil.
Russia bombards the EU, the US attacks Greenland and Canada, while Israel finally bulldozes Gaza and Iran. China takes Taiwan and the south sea.
All at the same time so NATO is overwhelmed and can’t decisively defend it all without risking spreading too thin. No matter what happens, one of the bad guys gains ground.
I honestly have no idea if this is even possible, it’s based on a dream I had a few weeks ago.
Disturbing thought though.
Russia is losing against Ukraine, the fuck they gonna do against EU, unless they use nukes in which case who cares, it’s game over
Israel might bulldoze Gaza and maybe a few Mashriq countries, but it would suffocate on Iran. That’s a fucking big country.
Graveyard of empires for a reason. They can try to OORAH!! MISSLES AWAY!!! Iran all they want, the resulting occupation will NEVER be a peaceful one, as there will ALWAYS be rebels in the hills and deserts.
Israel, Iran, China, and Taiwan are all outside the scope of NATO.
Canada, Greenland, and most of the EU do fall under NATO protection though. It’s a defensive alliance with well defined boundaries, member countries may have interests in other parts of the world, but since none of Israel, Iran, China, or Taiwan are NATO members it’s not something NATO deals with. Unless one of those countries were to attack NATO of course.
Russia is in no shape to make war on Europe right now, they have their hands full with just Ukraine, and face economic collapse. Iran is in a similar situation. Trump has stopped his 51st state talk, but he’s insane so you never know. China invading Taiwan? Trump is weak (he only talks tough) so you never know. But China is authoritarian and as we’ve seen of late authoritarian regimes don’t seem to be doing well running military campaigns so it’s possible they don’t even have the capability of invading Taiwan.
I can see trump believing something so stupid as that, and putin might saber rattle about it, but the majority of the world, and china/india especially in this situation, probably would not go along with it. Europe still has functioning nuclear capabilities. Putin does not want nukes hitting his country, full stop. China does not want a nuclear situation kicking off with their neighbor to the north, and knows that the US under trump would likely turn on them despite a war ruining both countries. India no more wants china controlling the waters to their east than the countries immediately around those waters do, and would likely cause issues, which china also doesn’t want. As we’ve seen in the modern times with ukraine and some of the middle east conflicts and the india/pakistan border, nuclear powers tiptoe around anything that resembles direct conflict. The recent dogfight over the border was a pretty good idea of how reserved even ‘open’ conflict is.
So putin is likely not going to do anything more than a symbolic grunt at his western border, and china will just slowly weather down taiwan if the u.s. is withdrawing its influence. The idea of reunification isn’t THAT taboo in taiwan, and the candidates for it gather a decent chunk of votes. If the u.s. starts acting like a bitch around the world (oh, gee, just look at what’s happening right now), the sentiment towards it and china could easily see a rapid shift.
I agree with you, but my tinfoil hat is telling me to dig a shelter, preserve food and start making ammo. You know, for game hunting.
If they’re going to withdraw then why are they strong arming all the other nations to spending 5% GDP on defense? If they’re not in NATO, who gives a fuck what they want?
Probably because they want those 5% GDP spent for contracts with the 'murican military industrial complex.
So, they wished the increased spending to the monkey paw and got exactly what they were wishing for: countries are cancelling orders of complex US equipment all over the world, and Europe is developing a military industry to compete with them.
But that’s definitely (hopefully?) not going to happen if they pull out of NATO.
Never underestimate the corruption and stupidity of European politicians. “Divide and conquer” works like a charm on most of our corrupt assholes. See the stupid opportunist fuck that the Germans elected chancellor. His (our :'( ) government is pushing for the use of the Palantir(!) software from fucking uber-Nazi-piece-of-shit Thiel in German administrations.
They’re demanding it of Australia (not NATO, but we do have ANZUS) too.
For the other nations in nato it would be for the best (imo obviously). Republican usa is not a reliable ally and the other nato nations have not all come to terms with that new reality yet. If the usa quits nato, then it instantly removes all doubt and the remaining nations of NATO can immediately start work on improving the alliance, instead of being stuck in limbo for a few more years while they’re hoping that the usa will somehow magically unfuck itself.
We already know all of that and work is already being done to improve the alliance among non-US NATO members. The US is already considered non-reliable and the only benefit of the US being a member is that it puts some doubt in the minds of adversaries long enough to build up the militaries of the non-US members.
The thinly veiled US exceptionalism that America is funding it. And their standard attack against other nations that they are welfare states taking advantage of USA.
Fucking assholes, if people are taking advantage of us. Then be proud we are so strong and rich that they even can.
If the US leaves NATO, Europe would lose a lot of support.
If the US stays in NATO, they would refuse to support them anyway and could use their veto power to stop any potential action.
If they’re not going to have the support of the US military either way, and the US staying in NATO could prevent the organization from taking any action at all, it may be in the best interest of Europe for the US to leave NATO so they can’t cripple it from within.
NATO is a defensive alliance so the only thing a US veto would do is prevent Ukraine from joining NATO. But that wouldn’t happen until the war is over, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen until Russia’s economy collapses. At that point Russia won’t be a threat for awhile so kick the US out, add Ukraine as a member since Ukraine would be a stronger ally than the US anyway.
I hope so. The united snakes should not have any influence for all the countries they bombed and couped for decades
Look how stupid your country is, to hand the death of NATO to Putin because you’re on his side.
Thanks for the war and death and heat, Americans.
Fuck you.
We’re pretty pissed off at ourselves right now too. I’m sorry things got this far and wish I could offer more than fear and frustration…
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They just had the largest protest in their history, have a handful of cities under military intervention to stop the protests, and are close to elect somebody that promises to fight against the federal government as mayor of their largest city.
What exactly do you expect them to do?
I keep seeing this sentiment and I don’t understand it. Are you speaking purely out of anger and ignorance? The recent No Kings protest was either the third or first largest protest in the history of the U.S.A. and some communities have literally been running ICE gestapo out of their towns.
The Christian Conservative minority have gridlocked the American government, silently stacked the judicial system in their favor, and partnered with the American oligarchy to bankroll fascists and create the most pervasive, effective, and enduring propaganda machines ever seen (that’s already worked its way into Australia and had been finding footholds in Europe).
The idea than Americans aren’t doing anything about this or that there could ever possibly be a single unified movement that magically fixes “the issue” is incoherently reductive and impractical. If I see a comrade struggling for air I don’t yell at them to just breathe. I help them remove the pig standing on their neck. What are YOU doing to lend a hand or show lost comrades that there’s still hope?
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It definitely isn’t.
It really sounds like you cowards are holding REALLY tightly to the same talking points- so fucking desperate not to face your inadequacy and complete lack of spine. It’s gross, honestly.
Guess what, you’re not “one of the good ones.”
Your comment makes no sense and helps no one.
Thanks for the war and death and heat, Americans.
Casting the first stone from paradise, eh?
Americans have been burning paradise. Sit yout ass down and be quiet.
What’s next? Helping Russia in their wars? I hope it was fucking worth it to “own the libs.”
Thanks to nato, america been bombing and organizing coup in ton of countriea with impunity.
Next is Canada and Greenland, then on to Europe where I will meet big daddy Putin in the middle.
China could also attack Taiwan. That’ll go much smoother when USA is alone and distracted
france was right all along
This took longer than I thought it would. It seemed like a priority during trump’s 1st term, then it stalled.
Given some of Putin’s comments lately, he seems increasingly restless. I wonder if this is related to that?
He’s preparing to attack the Baltics.
I would say the rest of NATO should be able to hold against Russia for sure, especially in its current state.
I would just be worried about short-term problems because of disrupted logistics due to the US withdrawing. Or maybe that other countries would follow the US in leaving.
But in the end, that is just my guess.
Nato for sure can stand its ground even without the US. But Russia doesn’t need to blitzkrieg and win huge swathes of territory in order to accomplish their goals of destabilizing the EU. Everyone saying “they’re already losing in Ukraine, they wouldn’t dream of opening another front” obviously hasn’t studied Russian history.
I think the biggest deciding factor in whether this happens or not is actually China. Ostensibly, they wouldn’t risk losing a huge market like the EU but afaik things aren’t going well over there either, so if Xi wants to be the strongman Putin is desperately trying to be just in order to hold on to power, I can absolutely see them choosing Russia’s side in a global conflict.
Based on news lately cracks on Russian economy start to show and their meat grinder in Ukraine crawls forward with massive casualties. At this rate they can’t attack a garden shed.
Putin himself can preparen and wish to conquer whatever he wants but as long as the little remains what’s left of Soviet Union might is scattered around Ukraine, Russia can’t really do anything. If Europe can’t get their shit together and Russia eventually wins (after several years at this pace) in Ukraine it would still take years to build up any kind of military force against anyone and even then they’d need to fight against whole EU and whatever remains are left of NATO.
