Damn. If only there was a way to get protection against measles without having to get measles. Some sort of injection. That’d be useful.
Yes, the old strategy of overwhelming the hospital system with mouth breathers.
Amazing strategy, Raisinhead.
I consider him more of an apple head.
Pretty sure I stole this one from here on Lemmy.
Better than the one I stole from Lemmy
You mean Luke McGarry?
Well yeah. Stolen from Lemmy from someone that stole it from Luke McGarry. Or more likely stolen a dozen times before it ended up on my phone lol.
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Hospitals should be able to refuse patients who get diseases that are preventable with vaccines. Problem solved.
No. For multiple reasons:
- Vaccines are not 100% effective. They reduce the likelihood of infection if you are exposed. The whole point of trying to get everyone vaccinated is to reduce the infection rate so that there’s less likely to be an outbreak. With a vaccinated population, the virus can’t spread fast enough to maintain a pool of infected people to keep spreading it. But that doesn’t mean nobody gets sick.
- Vaccines are not as effective on some people. There’s a range of effectiveness.
- Not everyone can get vaccinated. People with certain allergies or compromised immune systems in particular.
- Some parts of the population have higher risk factors than others and when they get sick it can be much more serious. Usually the very old and the very young. And again, people with compromised immune systems, or other conditions that complicate the illness.
- Kids whose parents refuse to get them vaccinated are put at elevated risk through no fault of their own.
I could probably keep going, but hopefully you get the idea why that’s just not a viable approach.
Everybody who gets vaccinated is documented as having gotten vaccinated, no?
So why can’t hospitals check the record and confirm that patients have been vaccinated? If they have, then everything’s fine. If they couldn’t get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, that’d be documented too.
The point is to ensure as many people are vaccinated as possible, not to prove a point about the efficacy of vaccines.
That said, I dislike the idea of healthcare being able to pick and choose, for any reason, not to treat someone. Then again I live in a sane country with free healthcare.
That said, I dislike the idea of healthcare being able to pick and choose, for any reason, not to treat someone.
This is exactly the problem. Once you start talking about who does and does not deserve healthcare, you’ve gone to a place I refuse to follow. There is far too much nuance to start drawing lines in the sand.
If they have the vaccine and it doesn’t work, then fine. But if they refuse it without being one of the small groups of people with a diagnosed and documented reason to not get it, then they should stay home and tough it out.
It’s such a bizarrely American view to restrict people’s access to healthcare… I guess the US will never get free healthcare if healthcare is still seen as a privilege and not a right.
It has a lot to do with people being so loud about their opinions, and trying to force those opinions onto others. Then, becoming victims of their own stupidity and infecting others. It’s mentally exhausting to the point where the only thing that I want is leopards eating faces.
Nah, you just made that up
Which part? The part where your wife told you she was allergic based on zero actual evidence and when you got pressed on it you panicked and resorted to expletives?
🤡
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That’s unfortunately an extremely slippery slope.
If vaccines (or lack thereof) are enough to refuse “service”, why treat lung cancer in smokers? What about type 2 diabetes?
Sure, those too. They can sue big tobacco and big sugar for the money to pay for those treatments.
According to this study, smoking costs our economy ~0.88% of our GDP. That works out to in the ballpark of $600 per capita. Would you change your opinion if you had $600 sitting in front of you? I disagree that it’s a slippery slope, anti-vax, smokers, and overeaters cost a lot of money, and the rest of us foot the bill.
One of my children is not vaccinated against measles. In addition, although she is vaccinated against whooping cough, she in fact has had whooping cough. I talk about it a lot. You see my child has a compromised immune system and the measles vaccine is a live vaccine so giving her that vaccine could in fact kill her. And the dead vaccines are not terribly effective for her. The end result is I am very pro-vaccine because I rely on other people’s vaccines to keep my child safe. But when a policy is put in place to deny those who are not vaccinated, it affects children like mine who simply can’t be vaccinated. You can say well, those with medical exemptions can still get treatment. Except as soon as there’s a medical exemption, all the anti-vaccine people jump in and claim a medical exemption, and then no one believes medical exemptions and children like mine are at risk. Even worse, some doctors may refuse to give medical exemptions thinking that everybody is lying in order to get an exemption.
Children do not choose whether or not to be vaccinated. So are you not going to treat an innocent 2-year-old because their parents are idiots? Do we put toddlers to death for the sins of their parents?
What about a family who can’t vaccinate their 2-year-old because the grandmother lives with them and is immunocompromised once again measles is a live vaccine and you are not supposed to have it if anyone in the house is immunocompromised. So the child certainly can receive the vaccine and would not qualify for an exemption but it would endanger another person in the family.
The question is where do we draw the line? Who do we let die for poor choices? Just those who make the choices? Or their family members? What do we consider a poor choice? Is not vaccinating your child if it could kill your parent a poor choice? It’s a hard choice, but is it a poor choice? I’d rather not play God and have absolutes.
I would love to see vaccine mandates put in place with all children required to get a vaccine unless a doctor says otherwise and leave that on the doctor’s shoulders to make medical decisions. What I would not like to see is life and death decisions made based on our judgment call of whether someone is smart, or has made smart choices.
You might as well argue that healthy people are a drag since care in old age is so expensive.
See, I’m German. We have a solidarity based health insurance (mostly). I’m a young, reasonably healthy guy with a reasonably high income. All in all I pay 840€ every month (that’s the maximum amount), even though I cost next to nothing. And I’m okay with that.
Yes, smoking is bad and I don’t like smokers. But denying them healthcare is deeply deeply inhumane. And in Germany even unconstitutional.
And what about my wife? She’s allergic to the measles vaccination.
That seems different than a refusal, no? That seems more like a medical incompatibility.
People use bullshit excuses all the time to avoid getting their kids vaccinated, including “allergies”.
“Allergies” are medically provable. Bullshit reasons are stuff like “sky daddy told me I don’t hafta” and “the govmint can’t 5g me”
That is certainly one extreme.
That’s a contrarian question, of course there would be loopholes for that.
I assume it would be documented and considered an exception
She lost the documentation years ago. We’re almost 40.
You can either get the documentation reprinted, or get tested, no?
Yes, but it’s just another thing on the pile of shit we’re dealing with right now. The fact that she is a woman already doesn’t bode well. We’re just glad that we’re both sterilized, all things considered…
Prove it
And that right there is why your argument is complete bullshit.
How does she know?
Go fuck yourself.
Yeah, exactly. You’re making it up.
Then she is also allergic to measles, because all it is is weakened measles itself.
Yes, it’s a shit situation.
They perhaps don’t need to. The staff in hospitals only got a few token coins as reward for the previous pandemic, and didn’t get much raise or better working conditions since then. People are already walking away because overworked and underpaid. It’s likely a lot of them just quit when a new pandemic would start and the hospitals can barely function.
Nurses at the hospital my spouse works for get like 160k for a regular floor nurse working a day time shift. So, I dunno about them being paid “tokens” whomever told you that probably isn’t a nurse. Of course, the rate varies by city. Do they still have nurses in red states?
nurses can earn bank depending where they are, travelling nurses can make bank from what ive heard. i think doctors can make alot in some red states, depending on the specialty.
Travel nurses during Covid made unbelievable bank. I know one nurse who was working the system and pulled in almost 500k for two years by manipulating the overtime system. I can’t blame them, they are totally oblivious at the system level and definitely don’t promote talented managers.
It’s funny when I hear all that nonsense about nurses not making money, since I’m so close to it and know better. Sure, some places pay crap, but most metropolitan areas pay out big—or have ways to work it. The hospital I know the most about also is considered the worst in the state. It’s actually got a reputation where people go to die. There are so many deaths on the floor and no one does anything about it. Totally preventable too. Wrong meds, skipped meds, patients being ignored or totally forgotten. It’s a fucking mess.
i heard doctors made over a 1mill+ just flying into a desolate red area that drove all its doctor, he only needed to be there like 3 times a week.
nurses make as much as doctors, and even more in some cases. it made sense when i was in a retail job had a recently hired with me shopper, said he wanted to be a nurse. that last part, seems more like negligence and mismangment by the hospital or network. It was wierd how the nurse that has been in the news charged for someone elses death was in fact the hospitals fault for not staffing more nurses. i tried to get the CLS(for hospitals) but i found out required a grad school certification which i dont qualify, and i heard they made decent money 100k+, definitely not nurse level income though. instead i tried to pursue biotech.
Bullshit, you made that up
Hospitals should be able to refuse RFK Jr and his immediate family.
Can’t argue with that.
apparently its more contagious than most viruses, they will probably to try to prevent them from going into the hospital
They’ll definitely want to put them in no contact rooms, but it’s not like those rooms are plentiful.
and ANti-maskers, distance, and vaxxer will throw a huge fit and fight the staff, like they did with covid, causing many to leave the industry.
I’ve actually met more anti-vax nurses than anti-vax non-nurses. Had one who was wearing a mask complain about being forced to wear a mask because she had not been vaccinated for ANYTHING! Jfc. I’m sure this is not the majority, but it’s pretty shocking how many medical professionals know squat about medicine.
i forgot how many nurses slip through the cracks. some areas, red states will waive certain parts of becoming a nurse because its such a big shortage, while others have more stringent regulations. nurses are the ones that assume they know everything because they got a a nursing degree.
It got pretty crazy when Covid hit and they just shoved nurses through the program. A lot of them got out and immediately made Covid bank, didn’t have to work, and are now freaking out that pay has gone back to normal, and people now have time to audit their performance. It is a pretty shitty situation for them though, hardly any of them got trained on the things they never got to learn in school. I heard one nurse managed to go two solid years without having to do an IV cause they never learned.
Hey now, my nose is always stuffy. That has nothing to do with my great stupidity.
Shit — This week — I have a relative that had to wait 3 days in the ER to be transferred to a bigger hospital. The big hospital didn’t have a bed.
The hospital system in America has been overwhelmed for over a month and a half straight now.
Anymore stress beyond the current quademic (and whatever the unknown illness is — have we figured that out yet?) and we will have to bring back keeping people outside and firing up the refrigerator trucks again.
these damn jackals
- Measles estimated case-fatality rate: 1.3%
- Estimated US population: 346,715,067
- Measles deaths if everyone in the US got measles: 4,507,295
- Upper limit on estimated MMR vaccine caused anaphylaxis: 0.000066%
- Anaphylaxis case-fatality rate: 0.3%
- Estimated vaccine-caused fatality rate: 1.98 * 10^-7 %
- Estimate vaccine-caused fatalities avoided by not vaccinating US population: 0.69
- Net increase in fatalities from switching to measles natural immunity for everyone in the US: 4,507,294
So it would only be better if he wants an extra 4.5 million Americans to die.
Measles also resets your immune system, making other illnesses deadly again.
Back in the day you’d survive Smallpox, then get Measles, then get Smallpox again.
These days, I guess it will be Covid and the Flu killing most people.
Beat me to it. People forget that that is one of the worst aspects of surviving measels. Your immune system is fucked. Meaning you will die from some disease you HAD immunity to previously. This is why measels was effectively a death sentence if you got it as an adult.
its more or less immunosuppression rather than resetting it, measles infect the dendritic cells which tells your t-cells to attack, so when those are destroyed your body cant react to new diseases, its also a form “acquired immunodeficiency”, your body still can fight, it just takes a lot longer, since b-cells takes a while to pump out enough antibodies.
his worms are willing to make that sacrifice.
that’s only 1500 or so 9/11s… who cares, right?
Are there any other complications from contracting measles that you haven’t factored in?
I was about to say, the collapse of the hospital system under the burden of both measles and all the other reasons people will still need hospitals will multiply that percentage.
Well I was told that deporting people would solve the housing crisis. Since that isn’t working out killing 4.5 million Americans seems like their fallback position.
It would solve America’s antivax issue at least.
Hey at least we saved that (1.98 * 10^-7)th person!
We did that, we gave everyone a very mild, usually symptomless, case of the measles. We called it vaccination.
“The measles gave you lifetime protection against measles infection,” Robert F. Kennedy Jr. told Sean Hannity on Fox News.
Wouldn’t it be great if there was something else that gave you protection against measles infection, without you actually having to have measles? If only …
The measles vaccine is literally a weakened version of the measles virus. It’s just an attenuated measles infection that allows your body to build antibodies against it without a full on infection.
This guy should have stayed off the raw meat.
As I said in a different thread recently, the only issue is that the name “vaccine” has been tainted in the minds of idiots. Rebrand it as “natural immune system therapy” or something, and market it as something the establishment is firmly against, and they’d be lining up to get it.
None of these people understand what vaccines actually do.
Some vaccines use target antigen production instead of the actual virus itself. This can be accomplished in a number of ways such as the bait and switch of using a specialized strain of a similar virus or by using a target antigen carrier to provide it. In the case of measles, Hemagglutinin protein is the target antigen.
Also, factually incorrect. Measles is known to cause immune amnesia, wiping out immunities gained from other infections (and measles).
Heroin really makes you focus too, it’s great for long study sessions.
also convinced govt of somoa to stop MEASLES VACCINATION, resulting in 86 children deaths. also drove his former wife to suicide.
The dems really need to appoint a shadow cabinet and hold press conferences with fact checks and useful advice about how to get vaccinated.
I’m glad that I am science literate and live close to the canadian border.
Dumb son of a bitch doesn’t even understand that a vaccine is “giving someone the disease” without killing them. God damn are we devolving that fast?
Brain worms: not even once.
He’s a drug addict. While I’m all for people overcoming addiction, it should disqualify them from this very specific job.
We ever evolved? It’s just one case where you see it.
It’d be better if you were an obscure and unimportant member of the Kennedy family and stayed that way.
dint know he existed til he announced his run.
I heard about him from a Behind the Bastards podcast a few years back. I knew he was a dumpster fire and was really surprised/not surprised he got a position.
Surprised because he’s an idiot. Not surprised because it’s par for this administration.
Fuck this assclown, my wife is allergic to the measles vaccination and will likely die if she gets the disease.
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Oh, he is absolutely vaccinated.
The vaccine isn’t 100% effective. If we inject him enough times, he’ll get measles eventually.
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There has to be some critical mass where there’s just so much virus the immune system can’t keep up.
Absolutely. Hypocrites and cowards, the lot of them.
I cannot believe the absolute fucking retards who got into power. What the fuck timeline is this? And don’t say Idiocracy - at least they had the sense to bring in the smartest person in the world of their time.
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The worst part… they think that’s what they did with Elon… they are just so dumb that he seems smart to them. More of a problem with idiocracy, dumb people can’t actually identify smart people. They call it luck…
Hand picked by the president to be the best person for the job for leading the dept of health.
Thank goodness we are finally hiring based on merit!
The sacrifice: Republican voters are declining
Democratic voters remain unchanged
Red State goes to Purple State
That was the theory behind COVID as well, and while it did happen at a 2:1 ratio, it wasn’t enough to impact the election in any way.
Edit: I’ll mention it needs to happen in a statistically significant margin, within the swing states exclusively. Diseases and viruses unfortunately don’t operate off electoral maps…If it was just a general vote, it wouldn’t be an issue.
the covid deaths were too spread out, but it was mostly people staying home and mail-in voting, something the gop now destroying. also they had time to research who trump really is. last election most people who did voted couldnt care less, they were to distracted by other things, or showed extreme apathy towards voting.
17,000 people died from COVID in 2020, and Biden won the state by about 12,000 votes.
Measles also resets your immune system for every other thing your body already learned to deal with. No, it would not be fucking better.
No RFK, things would be much better if YOU got measles
With you gone, people could vaccinate again and then they wouldn’t get sick, you worm for brains
he has worms which wont be affected by measles.
Remember the conspiracy theorists who though “the government” was using Covid-19 to cull the population? I wonder what they’re up to right now.
Probably hosting measles parties.
At this point I certainly hope they just fucking die. I can’t handle this shit anymore.
Probably ranting about how the shadow government is out to get Trump and Elon after they started saving America
shadow govt under the control of the gop.
These were the same ding-a-lings that couldn’t seem to make up their mind whether it was “just like the flu” (people were only dying “with” Covid, not from it) and any concern about it was just drummed up by “the media” and Fauci to ruin little d’s chances of re-election and kill all of our freedoms to go vaxless and maskless to super-spreader events, OR an intentional thing from Fauci/Soros/Gates working with the Chinese to kill everyone.
I mean, even in their own bullshit fictional universe, things don’t fit together. I have no idea how so many of these people manage to conduct the rest of their lives, but I cannot imagine living in those heads of theirs.
