- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- world@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/24657192
Summary
In a virtual speech at the World Economic Forum, Trump suggested Canada could become a U.S. state to avoid his proposed tariffs on imports.
The remark elicited gasps from the audience.
Trump claimed the U.S. does not need Canadian lumber, energy, or vehicles, vastly overstating the trade deficit between the two nations.
He reiterated his intention to impose tariffs, potentially as high as 25%, on imports from Canada and Mexico starting February 1.
Economists warn such tariffs would raise prices for U.S. consumers.
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Canada is avoiding Trump’s tariffs by not becoming a state.
They are not paying the tariffs, american people do. So by joining the US they would start paying all the tariffs that Trump is putting on China’s products, European products …
Why do people think that happens? It does not happen. 90% of the tariffs will be absorbed by Canadian companies trying to keep up sales to the US because there’s nowhere else to go, and even if they sell elsewhere, it’ll be discounted that much to other countries because of the general laws of supply and demand.
The only way, and it’s one that we have nothing in place to effect, is to mark prices as of the tariff date and to enact an export tariff for the amount of the sale under the price set point. That would highly discourage discounting sales and pretty much just cut them off since, in the case of products made or produced in the US, it would be competing with local products at 125% of the local price.
No, that’s called “dumping” and is against compliance of WTO rules, which would then allow the importing country to raise more taxes as anti-dumping measures.
This is from a US Gov website explaining what that is
The importer, not the exporter pays tariffs. Aka Canada pays nothing, things made in Canada have an extra tax attached to them when they cross the boarder into the us, paid by Walmart or whomever ordered the goods
Yes, but in the real world, while the importer pays the tariff, they’ve taken a discount on cost from their supplier in order to compete with local goods that aren’t tariffed. That’s why no country wants tariffs applied to their imports. Its almost like governments understand how this works.
Ummm no.
In the real world consumers ultimately end up paying the tariffs.
Domestic suppliers have a tendency to raise prices is response to increased demand and decrease competition from imports.
When Trump implemented a tariff on Washing Machines in 2018 during his first term. The price of imported washing machines went up, the price of domestic washing machines went up, the price of dryers… which weren’t tariffed went up.
Eventually it did led to more washing machines and dryers being manufactured domestically. Which did lead to a small increase manufacturing in jobs. But it was a net loss for the consumers.
Tariffs function as a flat tax on goods. Like all flat taxes this benefits the wealthy and hurts poor and the working class.
Well, when it’s been in place and the Canadian economy is in free fall, you can come here and tell me how wrong I and all the governments were about how this works. I’m sure it’ll go totally different than the softwood lumber tariffs that shut down the forestry industry in BC for a decade.
Here’s the Canadian forest industry take on tariffs. Mostly borne by Canadian producers:
https://forestresources.org/2024/12/19/a-discussion-around-tariffs-on-cdn-lumber/
I’m confused friend.
The article you linked to says:
… Canadian lumber producers would not be able to absorb this, the price of lumber will adjust upwards ….
Is that not, quite literally, a direct contradiction of your earlier statement that:
90% of the tariffs will be absorbed by Canadian companies
And if the price increases, is that not the consumer paying the tariffs?
I’m out of energy for this.
You’re right, we should just ignore it because it’ll only affect the USians. Maybe we lobby them to make it 50% so it punishes them more. It’ll all be perfectly fine here.
Us citizens pay tariff this doesn’t hurt Canadians. They should call bluff and say do 30%.
Actually tariffs will hurt Canadians deeply. Why? Because it means that Americans will lean towards not buying products made in (or partially made in) Canada. Plus, Canada would certainly reciprocate meaning the price of everything is going to go up in Canada. It’s not a good situation and our government needed to be spending the past 10 - 20 years developing stronger trade relations with other countries but instead we amplified our relationship with what is clearly a very unreliable and untrustworthy neighbour.
Basically sums up how half America feels about its country.
They’re already gonna hurt cause homes aren’t gonna make themselves, and we’re deporting our construction crews…
It potentially reduces exports from Canada to the US, hurting our economy. Nobody wins
Canada imports more from USA than it exports to USA. A trade war that decreases exports would hurt USA more than Canada.
The largest exports from USA to Canada are cars and trucks. (Finished products) The largest exports from Canada to USA are minerals, fuels and pulp. (Raw material)
This puts USA at a disadvantage in a tariff game, because it’s a lot easier for Canada to replace American cars with Asian or European cars, than it is for USA to replace the variety of ressources that Canada provides
It’s also a lot easier for Canada to find other customers for raw materials than it is to sell American cars on other continents.
We’ll have to analyze more deeply but it is very likely that these exports to Canada are actually coming from México.
We have a lot of resources. Ya our shit will get more expensive, but he’s gonna fuck his own country doing this. Canada will survive.
Canada will absorb most of the extra cost if we want to sell product to the US.
Will it though. Seems like Mexico will build the wall talk.
Honestly, the only way to keep that cost in the US is to mandate that anyone selling across border has a price set as of the day of the tariffs. If they sell under that price, they get export tariffed for the difference. Then at least there’s a chance that the tariff burden will be passed on to the US consumers and maybe they’ll do something.
But we don’t have anything in place to make something like that happen at this point, and even if we did, I doubt we have the political will to shelter Canadians that way. Sure as fuck Polievre won’t do any such thing.
Maybe someone whipping up a plan. Would be nice to only see one party victimized by this bs.
My understanding is that tariffs in general can apply to both imports and exports, on either side.
Well according to wiki you are right. I was on ever taught tax on imports in school. Taxing exports only works of there is one possible vendor and if there is not then the competition will just has to charge slightly less while expanding production.
Imagine if China , EU, and or japan be like here is 10% discount. Or better yet Trade alliance among countries who Trump charges on exports would be hillarious.
Or better yet Trade alliance among countries who Trump charges on exports would be hillarious.
This is exactly what is happening, its the main reason of the rise of BRICS.
Well that will makes things more volatile among former friendly nations.
Why people keep listening to what that being says? Just respond to his actions, anthing else is useless…
I somewhat agree with your point but after years of him saying he would do fucked up shit and then him doing a lot of it, it helps to be prepared for his intentions as they manifest into actions in many cases.
My point goes mostly to international leaders or representative people that over-react to his words and then the media look to amplify it by doing it a “new”: part of his strategy is this shit bombing upon saturation, so it buffers a space of allowance of shit actions in the public opinion that otherwise would have suffered of even more rejection if done without this probing, confusing and dragging resources in the meantime to attend this… which in the end will not matter how are they answered, prevented or reacted, he will push anyway in that direction, so I would give zero weight to all that diarrhea, shit will come willing it or not since he has the power to do it, accepting any kind of conversation with someone like that is playing a rigged game and lose terrain… why accept his ability to an exchange of opinion in the first place? why respond/listen to him? He behaves like the strongest bully, the corresponding treatment is required… join on isolating him, he will not make it easy though. This is my opinion…
There is no actual fentanyl or immigration basis for tariffs on Canada. Just submit to less representation than California, and help absorb large US debt with little in return for it.
There’s no basis for tariffs on Mexico either.
Really there is no basis for any tariffs, the richest nation in the world putting tariffs on other nations products because they can’t keep up is embarrassing.
What about the provinces within Canada? Are they gonna all merge to become one US megastate?
All I know is that Quebec would never allow that
All hail GiGa Montana
Finally, Hannah Montana!
Just. You know…
become a state.
Canada is already a state… a SOVEREIGN state.
How about trump can suck my left nut. There, I said it.
If’n he can point to it on a map
Canada’s economy is dependent on the US. Trump might actually pull this off.
Edit: More context since people are downvoting. Consider the following now picture yourself one of the greedy capitalists in Canada, which is a preferred outcome? Losing your wealth or losing Canadian sovereignty?
Just because I think it is likely doesn’t mean that I think it’s right. This is clearly wrong.
Canada is also America’s largest trading partner.
America had $357 billion dollars worth of imports from Canada in 2023, if they introduce a 25% tarriff Americans will pay $446 billion instead because it’s not like you’ll get all that stuff anywhere else for cheaper since America is going to put tariffs on practically every other country they trade with apparently.
Corporations spend billions on the current infrastructure and trade routes and logistics, they will not uproot everything and go through the pains of firing everyone then moving to America and retraining because of a short term loss. American administrations are fickle, many of them will simply wait out the 4 years hoping it will return to normal then. If it doesn’t then maybe they might consider it then but for the next 4 years Americans are going to be paying a shitload more for anything that’s not made in America.
American businesses will also find it a lot more difficult to sell their products out of the country when those countries retaliate with tarriffs against them.
Canada’s oligarchs like the fact that only Israel and US is allowed to compete with them, and elections are cheaper to buy. A single state makes them lose power. Population understands only negatives from US, and also would not vote for Trump.
Unfortunately for Canadians, they are still programmed to side with US over China and Russia, and that programming makes it a blasphemy to seek independence that would also protect them from the US. As long as Canada’s position is to beg to restore its fully subservient colonial status, then the Trump extortion will continue.
One goal that Musk would have behind this is that it can destroy the big 3 automakers.
Not likely.
Likely doesn’t mean inevitable. I am the pessimistic type, so there’s that. I hope that I am proven wrong.
I mean honestly, he’s just a giant douche canoe that accurately reflects the level of intelligence and emotional maturity that the most of his fucking deplorable Nazi base is. There’s nothing he’s here said that isn’t what his moronic base says on a daily basis and is more or less a accurate representation of America and Americans by large.
America is a nation of idiots.
I want to see Canada put out an open offer for immediate welcome, territoriship, and instant citizenship for any state along the border that votes to join Canada.
Alberta will be happy to hear that
Democracy is demagogue-prone. That’s a disease to which electoral systems are vulnerable. Yet demagogues are easy to identify. They gesture a lot and speak with pulpit rhythms, using words that ring of religious fervor and god-fearing sincerity.
The practice can always be detected by anyone who learns the signs: Repetition. Great attempts to keep your attention on words. You must pay no attention to words. Watch what the person does. That way you learn the motives.
They create a system where most people are dissatisfied, vaguely or deeply. This builds up widespread feelings of vindictive anger. Then they supply targets for that anger as they need them—as distraction. Don’t give time to question.
They bury mistakes in more laws. Traffic in illusion. Bullring tactics. Wave the pretty cape. People will charge it and be confused when there’s no matador behind the thing. That dulls the electorate just as it dulls the bull.
Fewer people use their vote intelligently next time.
There appears to be a rule of nature that says it’s almost impossible for self-serving groups to act enlightened, flowing with the forces of life, adjusting your actions that life may continue. With the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number, of course.
The risks of democracy and how to prevent them paraphrased from Dune.
Apparent everywhere, Trump is just one in this path of centuries.
Focus on actions, not promises, and unite against inequality and division. Systems should be simple, transparent, and work for everyone, not just the wealthy or powerful. Educating and organizing workers, holding leaders accountable, and building solidarity across all groups are essential for achieving fairness. Lasting change comes from addressing root causes, not chasing temporary fixes.
Maybe the next century will show results somewhere.
Oh, boy, what you’ve got going on looks like so much fun, how could we want to miss out?
