In Bloom by Nirvana
It has been a long time but I remember feeling sad for Rico in the book. I don’t know if Heinlein intended it to be seen like this but by the end it felt like there was nothing left of the human being.
I did like griffith a lot as teen (the physics book ofc)
Who (and how did they) misunderstood MGS? Kojima isn’t exactly subtle.
And considering that Venom isn’t even the real Big Boss, and Big Boss was only a true villain in the original Metal Gear, when he had zero backstory and wasn’t even cool enough to get more than a fucking placeholder name, it’s weird seeing him up there. 2 and 5 pretty much show his goal was to destroy the illuminati as well as take care of war vets who got fucked over by their government. He’s only a villain to the shitty fascist governments controlled by The Patriots. He’s way more of an anti-hero than an actual villain.
It’s like calling Neo from The Matrix a villain because he killed innocent people who were tools of the enemy without their knowledge.
I think you’re misunderstand the meme. I think it’s aimed at Dude-bros® who only understand the superficial message which is obviously being disproven by the content. It’s making fun of people who have a Fight Club poster on their wall because they think the message is “all men can be hardcore, bare knuckle boxers, if the stop letting a weak social framework tell them what they want.” Or watching the film of Starship Troopers and learning “You can overcome any obstacle with enough bravado and testosterone.” I’m not as familiar with most of the animes pictured, but I assume the jab is the same.
Big Boss used child soldiers though.
No he didn’t. He rescued child soldiers, and gave them a home. He didn’t use them in combat until they were adults who, for obvious reasons, became loyal to him.
I don’t understand why it’s bad to enjoy evil characters. I don’t want to just consume Disney forever. I wouldn’t say I like Griffith as a person, but he is a very interesting character and crucial to the plot of Berserk. The title makes it sound like there is some alternative version of Berserk where Griffith doesn’t exist and it’s somehow better. Just because I like these characters doesn’t mean I missed any point. I don’t think that’s the case for most people. These posts are r/iamverysmart material.
If you understand that Griffith is not someone anyone should want to emulate, I don’t think this meme is about you anyway.
This meme is about the insecure dudes who are hurt and angry and decide to channel that into some cringe edge-lord ‘I want to hurt everyone else and feel nothing but that it is my destiny to be on top’ phase.
Is this becoming a big thing somewhere? I have somehow managed to avoid those communities apparently. Or is it tied to a certain age group I don’t fall into?
Becoming? It’s not new. Plenty of people have seen Scarface as a self-made badass instead of the pathetic, neurotic mess of a man he collapses into.
This is the part I’m stuck on too lol. People see a couple of trolls online and believe there is a whole community of Griffith worshipers
I was unaware if it was that’s why I figured it was worth asking. I don’t exactly travel the world and my passport is in fact expired lol. So if it isn’t happening locally in my small town I find I may be blind to it
I have a hard time believing that those people represent a demographic larger than just a few online trolls. I think the meme is really about OP feeling smart
I don’t understand why it’s bad to enjoy evil characters.
Just because I like these characters doesn’t mean I missed any point.
It’s not bad but it’s a dangerous line to tread. You may get the nuance but far too many people don’t. It’s why so many people are enchanted by Tyler Durden and Patrick Bateman. These characters are meant to be vilified, not aspired to. That is why the cults of personality and admiring strongman authoritarians still persist because many people are easily impressed by raw display of power. Yanis Varoufakis mentioned we are all susceptible to it-- and by extension fascism-- in varying degrees and we’d be lying if we don’t feel impressed. He’s not saying we all secretly admire fascists but that all of us have a dark side and containing it is really the challenge.
I know it’s just my personal experience but I see more people saying that people are enchanted by those characters than i’ve ever seen anyone actually admit to it. Maybe you have, I can’t really argue that. I also disagree that it is a dangerous line to tread. Liking evil characters isn’t anymore dangerous than liking violent video games like GTA
I see more people saying that people are enchanted by those characters than i’ve ever seen anyone actually admit to it.
I don’t know about you but i see on social media defending and glazing toxic masculine figures such as Tyler Durden and Patrick Bateman. The profile of those admirers are typically lonely and insecure men, which another user has pointed out.
Agreed. I love tons of evil characters precisely because they are more interesting or they make the world more interesting. So many have more interesting motivations, more interesting developments, and more interesting dialogue than the hero roles they counter.
There is a difference between enjoying an evil character, and what a lot of people do with these specific evil characters. The ones in this meme are often looked up to by a bunch of people. There are lots of people who believe they are the correct person in the story, or otherwise the one to be idolized.
I can’t really counter your argument, I’ve just never heard of anyone who thinks Griffith, Johan or any of these characters are correct. I’m not saying they don’t exist, but I doubt it’s anywhere close to being a split position to having.
Well, TBF, you have to get deeper into the weeb side of the black pill movement to understand how many weirdos out their side with grifith’s philosophy/the godhead, or Johan from monster. However, you will absolutely see them frequently if you, for some reason, subject yourself to places that have black pillers in larger numbers, twitter, 4chan, facebook… You would probably have to been in conversation space about scifi to really see the people who unironically defend the military government of earth in starship troopers, however its pretty common when the subject comes up.
However the Joker? you really have never seen people side with the Joker? I actually have a hard time believing you are social media savvy enough to be on Lemmy, and have not experienced the armies of losers that identify with the Joker as a hero. This is like police with punisher skulls level of common. The idolization of Tyler Durden as a working class hero is also quite common.
Talking about not getting it. The people in this thread bring up points about liking things for reasons that don’t mean you agree with the evil character, and think the are to be looked up to, while simultaneously ignoring that there are massive crowds of people out their that do just that, look up to these people like hero’s, believe they are the correct ones, etc. and that this is what the meme was addressing, not someone thinking a character was a good character for story writing purposes.
The best example of this was all the people who liked the boys, but didn’t get it was taking the piss out of them.
sometimes good men have to play the devil just to get anything done.
doesn’t justify shit, but it certainly is effective.
Maybe that thing never really needed doing, if it’s only means for operation was via evil means. Maybe that whole system just needed to be entirely dismantled.
My exwife has a large slytherin tattoo. That house in pottery is just “the bad guys”. There’s not charecter arch or deeper meaning, no complexity in writing.
They are just the bad guys, who are evil and mean. That’s it. She loves em.
A lot of people have Empire tattoos, Decepticon tattoos, and so on. Fictional bad guys are just cool.
Warhammer 40k Chaos is also cool.
I love Zeon/Neo Zeon mobile suits. Don’t agree with the views, but damn do they have some cool designs.
I mean, spacenoid rights, which is what Zeon Diekun preached, was not the same as the as the Principality of Zeon, which is the Zabi Family dictatorship, and the ones that gassed and dropped a colony.
At last, a true Zeonic! 🫡
Consider the alternatives:
Suicidal, stupid, trouble causing and seeking, bullying “brave” Griffindors.
Bookworm “smart”, swot grinders Ravenclaws.
Sly and cunning, “ambitious” Slytherins.
Neither brave, smart or sly, menial workers Hufflepuffs.
Idk about you, but out of those options to me speaks the most “neither”, but if I have to sleep somewhere, I’d wear green.
They weren’t particularly sly cunning or smart. Ambitious I’ll give you.
The book sets it up like slytherin and gryfindor are basically the same except one is evil.
I am quoting the books with cunning and ambitious. It also mentions resourcefulness.
It’s just that the author is not that good with her craft and she made them Evil, shallow house in practice.
Or maybe it’s the other way, and she did that on purpose, so that the early children book has visible low stake antagonist Malfoy, who does not really matter compared to BBEG.
I understand what you mean. They are said to be those traits but that is absolutely not portrayed in the book.
So if you’re reading the books or watching the movie and thinking “I relate to those guys” all there is to relate to is being “bad”
They don’t have anything else going for them in the story.
Yeah the sorting hat sorta tells Harry slitherin folks are destined for big things (not necessarily good, but big) but then there’s dumbfucks like crabbe and goyle in there who couldn’t accomplish shit.
Joanne Kowling Rowling didn’t exactly stay consistent about things in those books.
Dude, the Hufflepuffs’ dorms are described as cozy and are located near the kitchen, that’s objectivelly the best place to sleep in.
I thought about it. But low ceiling and the fact they are described as basically background noise made me uninterested ultimately. :-)
The most powerful wizard out of the Triwizard tournament. “Background noise”. If school houses are groups then the “best” of those school houses should say more than the perspective of a boy bias by being in a different group.
Edit: maybe I shouldnt say most powerful, best rounded? Idk.
Not because of the Snape “redemption” at the end of the movie?
She doesn’t have a snape tattoo. She has slytherin and deatheater tattoos.
Yeah, that’s why I mentioned the only notable character with positive attributes.
A stalker who worshipped one woman because she talked to him as a child and he decided to abuse orphaned children caused by the very hate group he was a part of. As Voldemort is supposed to be placed during WW2, snape became a NAZI by choice… Then only decided to oppose them when Hitler decided to kill someone he cared about.
Why he is such an ass to Neville we’ll never understand.
The only one i have a gripe with is the Brand of Sacrifice. Yes, in the Berserk workd, it marks one for sacrifice by the Godhand. But we dont live in the Berserk world. To me, the Brand is a sign of struggle, and a symbol of resisting fate and destiny. It’s standing up for yourself, even when the easy thing would be to lay down. It’s facing adversity and pain when the world wants to kick you and beat you down. That’s what the Brand means to me.
But fuck Griffith, i want that twink obliterated.
But fuck Griffith, i want that twink obliterated.
I mean, right before he did the, uh, stuff he kinda was. A whole buncha torture stuff happened to him before he did the things.
“I want that Twink obliterated”. I mean so do the people that like him.
But fuck Griffith, i want that twink obliterated.
I have just the doujins for you.
I can get behind a brand of sacrifice tattoo, it says ‘I too am a struggler’ but I agree a lot of people probably don’t get that it’s literally a mark that you’re a human sacrifice that also pulls you and everything and everyone around you half way to hell
What about The Wolf of Wall Street?
is he not a true American hero?
Rorshach not being on there is disappointing.
I’m not locked in here with you! You’re locked in here with me! Melts someone’s face with fryer oil. Cringe line…but kinda funny at the same time.
We can’t fit all of the Watchmen cast, can we?
Can anyone fill me in about the top three?
The first two are from berserk, the third is from monster. The first one is a mark for sacrifice, the other two are the perfect psychopath archetype. I (and someone else here) think the mark doesn’t fit because it has a great message about strugging and fighting the greater powers of the world.
Author: Satirizes toxic masculinity via cartoonishly terrible male characters
A concerningly significant portion of men: basedbasedbasedbasedbased
Heinlein was suuuuper in favor of a colonial/martial culture. The whole reason he wrote Starship Troopers was because he was disappointed that the US suspended nuclear weapons testing which he saw as further evidence of the decline of martial culture. The book clearly advocates for the promotion of civic duty as a moral imperative as well as for things like corporal punishment. He WANTED the “toxic masculinity” culture, that was his own culture as he perceived it.
The movie is basically the complete opposite, satirically portraying colonial/martial values against the backdrop of an imperial state. It’s one of the biggest disparities in intent vs interpretation I have ever seen.
The movie rocks, by the way. Still watch it once a year
Rico wasn’t a terrible person. But he really is the exception in the list.
Rico is an officer in the war-machinery of one of the more fascist systems imagined in film. After the events of Operation Royalty he sends what basically amounts to child-soldiers to their deaths. He believes only military service should grant citizenship and shows unquestioning loyalty to the Federation.
But I’m sure he only followed orders, that’s a perfectly good excuse.
Oh, I only saw the movies.
All that is from the movie.
I don’t remember him becoming an officer. Guess I’m just going senile. My b.
Well, in the movies alone he’s pretty much the same thing: officer of a fascist war machine. And while he is presented as a dumb jock at the beginning, by the end of the movie (movies, too) he’s pretty much shown absolutely no character growth, besides being much more pumped about the fascist war machine.
Every time I think about Rico, I remember when he talks about citizenship. First in school, then at the funeral. Same definition, word for word. Just more conviction the second time around.
When did he become an NCO? I remember the movie ending with him as a boot.
He becomes an NCO after he kills the first tank bug and becomes a full officer after the funeral.
Rico was a terrible person, but through experience and hardship learned the weight of being an adult comes with a high price.
Based? Based on what?
Two more for the pile
Edit: ironically, it seems my media literacy could be called into question here too based on the mismatch between the tone of OP meme and the tone of the responses I posted. Context for anybody missing it below.
The punisher is a revenge fantasy carried out on corrupt policemen. The message was basically acab before acab was a thing people said. Policemen, who tend to have IQ that matches their best mile time in minutes, love to plaster his logo all over everything they own.
The bottom photo is Tom Morello of Rage Against The Machine. Rather than summarize his story, I’ll share his response when a prominent conservative politician tweeted about RatM being their favorite band. “I wonder what [Paul] Ryan’s favorite Rage song is? Is it the one where we condemn the genocide of Native Americans? The one lambasting American imperialism? Our cover of “Fuck the Police”? Or is it the one where we call on the people to seize the means of production? So many excellent choices to jam out to at Young Republican meetings!”
Damn, “Arm the homeless” is a hell of a take.
Yeah. The leftist in me thinks it goes kinda hard, but the volunteer social worker in me has spent a lot of time and effort making absolutely sure the homeless folk I’ve interacted with were not armed. I thought it said “arm the hopeless” when I found the picture
I know the point of Tom Morello being included is because RATM is completely misunderstood by conservatives, but it makes me giggle because he did a song for Final Fantasy XIV because a friend he played D&D with also knew a guy involved and it just happened.
But progressives can have hobbies. It’s fine. Lol
Morello was in a Voyager episode?!?!? I don’t even really like RATM, but holy fuckin BASED
‘Good Shepherd’ S06E20, it’s just a cameo appearance though.
Good lookin out! Voyager is one of the few Trek shows I haven’t seen every episode of, I mean I’ve seen most of Voyager, so I might’ve seen that one. It just makes sense, Starfleet is the embodiment of leftist socialist idealism, I do love it so
Who’s the dude in the bottom picture?
Tom Morello
What’s Tom doing in that list? From everything I’ve heard about him he seems like a great guy
I wonder if the message is about Rage Against the Machine and how conservatives always misunderstand the lyrics because they have zero media literacy.
Same with Born in the USA. They hear the chorus and think it’s about how America rocks, but it’s really about how we traumatize our soldiers and leave our vets out to dry.
Fortunate Son too
The Machine: Love this shit USA FTW
RATM: …When did rage against the machine go woke?
Edit: Damn. It’s funny how much you all suck.
Holy wooosh
Upvoted because I caught the sarcasm lmao.
Before they formed as a band.
Lol.
Doyoueverconsiderwhybeingawareofandagainsthorriblethingshappeningtoinnocentpeople,awareofthepeopleinchargescammingandlaughingatyouwhileyouscrabblearoundinthedirtblamingotherpeoplebeingscammedjustlikeyouisconsideredaninsultbyyourkind?Do you just enjoy the feeling of constantly being made a fool? Is that why you think ‘woke’ is such an insult? Some kind of weird kink about being robbed and abused?Well fuck me I fell for it. It’s real hard to tell these days when someone’s being facetious or not on the internet :(
It’s all good. Here I was thinking I was laying it on pretty thick given the context, but here we are. 🤷
It turns out Lemmy is full of humorless morons.
Rage against the machine going woke is a very common joke on the internet. XD
It’s a “misunderstood the message” in the opposite direction. He wrote angry songs about how the establishment is evil, and pro-establishment people thought they were angry songs about how people trying to change the establishment were evil.
Right wingers are too dumb to have media literacy and tend to love RATM. I do agree just a photo of him was probably the most confusing way to convey that message though.
The photo includes a message on his guitar, “arm the homeless”, should have been a good indicator they weren’t right wing.
But, But, he is saying more guns! I want more guns, and I identify as conservative, and republican!
Ahhhh yeah that makes sense, I think I was just under caffeinated. Thanks
https://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=7794
Tom Morello, took offense to the fact that Mitt Romney’s choice for vice-president, Paul Ryan, cited Rage as his favorite band
Guitar strings.
