Reason number 5,386 to delete your Reddit account and encourage your friends & loved ones to do the same.
DC is hoping a grand jury will order .
Fuck these nazis
I doubt an anonymous ICE critic would be criticizing ICE without using a VPN.
Given the US Constitution, no US citizen should need a VPN to do that.
I find it reassuring that the government is at least acting like they can’t identify this user without Reddit’s consent. I wonder why this charade is necessary; are they trying to set a legal precedent?
are they trying to set a legal precedent?
Yes, of course.
They are doing a parallel construction so they can publicly make accusations. It’s not reassuring I assure you.
They want to intimidate people, imho.
They want to prosecute peope in open court so using the NSA to id people would be inconvenient (but not impossible).
Exactly, known as parallel construction, they find a plausible way to have found what they illegally know to use it publicly.
They’ve probably already ID’d them. Now they just need Reddit to “volunteer” the info that DickSwanger420 is actually Marvin Peterson from Boise.
Why would they be acting? It’s probably not a first amendment test.
OP’s headline does not match the article linked in any way. I don’t know if the site changed the article or what, but the Grand Jury has not ordered Reddit to turn over any data.
a subpoena issued by federal prosecutors to the management of Reddit, representatives of the site have been ordered to appear before a grand jury in Washington D.C., with an April 14 deadline set in an attempt to compel Reddit to volunteer personal data and the identity of a user who had the temerity to lightly criticize Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) on the platform.
Essentially, they have ordered Reddit to send representatives to be badgered into volunteering the user’s information.
No, it’s not volunteering, at least not anymore.
Subpoena is legal Latin for “under penalty,” because noncompliance with a subpoena carries a penalty.
Originally, it was an information request from the feds, and Reddit refused. Then they escalated to getting a grand jury subpoena (which means they got a bunch of normal citizens to agree that the information was relevant to a criminal investigation), so now noncompliance carries a penalty.
Reddit notified the users, who hired their own lawyers, who are resisting the subpoena and will litigate it to where they need a judge to decide whether Reddit will have to turn the information over.
That’s the process for these things, and we’re a couple steps in already.
Subpoena to appear, not subpeona to give up info
The commenter above you is correct, they haven’t forced the issue yet
These kinds of posts and titles on Lemmy are a serious issue that I’ve noticed over the last 6 to 7 months.
There appears to be a serious issue with moderation and a lot of Lemmy subs.
I’m not calling for any Reddit styled moderation here. Absolutely not. I’m just saying something needs to happen here to better moderate these subs.
Some communities have bots that check post title and article title match, if not the post is auto-removed. Happened to me a while back when I simply tried to shorten a really long title.
IMO this bot should be mandatory for all communities
It’s really easy for one of the mods in this community to make the op fix the headline or remove the post. Did anyone report it?
Maybe mods should be subject to review by members.
One thing I love about eBay is that buyers can also be rated by sellers.
That single handedly resolved many issues.
I’m just saying… You’re right.
Isnt it up to the readers of the article to notice and upvote things like this? Lemmy is just a link aggregator. Mods dont read every post. I bet almost everyone has a full time job or student life too.
Report it and upvote the problem and it will be fixed by a mod eventually, and readers will be aware until that happens.
So they are using a form of harassment? Get them to look at the cost of sending someone vs just betraying one user. Of course the blowback as reddit shows it would betray your anonymity could be a pr disaster.
If the article is correct then the whole demand is truly bizarre. There seems to be nothing in the reddit user’s postings to warrant this amount of concern. The fact that his comments are innocuous may be to set a precedent that any criticism, regardless of severity, can be prosecuted or at least intimidation.
I copy pasted the headline from Particle. Apologies
The headline is wrong. No decision has been made yet.
Good god the title is very misleading. The grand jury hearing isn’t until April 14. It’s still chilling that the administration will go to these lengths to apparently silence criticism, but I’m not convinced there is more to this story. Although the reddit user in question is enlisting a civil liberties group to represent him, I’m thinking he/she may not be a terrorist mastermind who is a danger to the American people.
That doesn’t sound misleading in the slightest, because that’s not the definition of misleading. It sounds like a fucking lie.
This measured response feels much healthier than my/our kneejerk reactions. Any prosecutor is going to seek information that would help their case, and they expect the Court to simply say No when it isn’t compatible with the law. It sucks that this Trump admin and retributive DOJ have such an anti-American track record that our initial instinct is that every move is another attempt to suppress criticism (which it likely would be if they had any scintilla of competence to go with their thirst for fascism).
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ah pedonald trying to scare people. fuck him with a retractable baton.
That might bring him pleasure.
Dip him in acid.
Heh, which kind?
Donny was a pedo-phile
Now Donny is no more
What Donny thought was H20
Was H2SO4
That calcium-loving one that eats your bones if you touch it?
Ah yes, the bone hurting juice
I kinda wanna see the one that causes sensory blending and hallucinations.
And just fuck with him for…well how ever many days a dose like that would take to wear off.
Nah, give him shrooms and let the mushroom gods show him the weight of his own soul as it drags him beneath the rising tides of the abyss…
I think you’re referring to hydrofluoric acid
As a chemist, I recommend Hydrofloric acid
A friend of a friend died from spilling a small amount of HF onto himself.
concentrated HF is highly toxic and caustic, while diluted in water isnt that poisonous.
All of them
man i fuckin hate the us government. Do y’all really say shit like “pedonald” unironically though
do y’all say that shit and be like “heh yeah i got his ass”? do y’all say shit like “The Orange Menace” and think it’s the fuckin bomb dot com?
you old ass freaky mfs got that truth social energy going on. Y’all say some corn ball facebook auntie garbage and act like it’s tuff with two F’s
Can y’all act like normal human beings instead of this weird ass insulated secluded sector of the radicalized internet for a sec big dog like damn
slaughter conservatives and behead authority figures, stop this busted ass middle school style name calling though holy fuck
Who here is acting “tuff”? It seems more like it’s you than anyone else.
Room temp IQ.
Come on down from wherever you are from and get the ball rolling for us, id welcome you
It’s not the radicalized people who are fine with a pedophile in the white house…
ok.
Actual title:
A Secret Grand Jury Is Seeking the Identity of a Reddit User Who Criticized ICE
It’s completely unclear what illegal thing the user is supposed to have done, other than dislike ICE.
Why not worry about the pedo in the white house instead? Deport him and his entire family to the middle of the atlantic.
I remember when reddit first got popular and the demise of Digg
I feel like we’re watching the demise or reddit now
The place is nothing but bots, they allow loser power tripping mods to ban you willy nilly with basically no appeal process. And now they’re gonna give you up to the govt
I’m sure shareholders are super stoked right now
Now? It died in 2023 or whenever the API debacle happened. Even before that it was pretty botty.
Yes it had been pretty shit since maybe 2016 or so honestly. You can go on any thread of an article on any subreddit and the top comments and top replies are like pre manufactured echo chamber propaganda for whoever is astroturfing or modding that community. Don’t get it messed up, Lemmy is guilty of echo chamber attitude as well but on Lemmy it’s at least a mass of people causing an echo chamber not one likely corporate interest pushing a talking point. Definatley feels more “natural” here I suppose. Or more human? Idk if I get rained on with downvotes here I’m pretty confident every individual one had a person behind it, vs u broke with the propaganda machine on reddit then you get downvoted into oblivion or censored/deleted. And if u get banned here it’s usually only one community that you likely don’t want to be in anyways, so benefits both the banned user and the community. I was glad the api debacle happened because it’s the only reason I learned about the fediverse!
The 2016 point is, on point. I remember the absolute flood of pro-Trump, incel, conservative content that felt completely inorganic and had very little representation prior popping up literally everywhere, everyday. It was like a firehose of far right fringe ideas was aimed at Reddit. Reddit 100% had problems prior but it was mostly focused on violence/sexual violence towards women and girls and wasn’t ever on the front page, other than maybe Jailbait. Even at the time people using Reddit were aware and talking about how unnatural it all seemed but now it’s too far gone and been normalized.
I was a very early Reddit user, and a “power user” for over a decade who was permanently banned for “inciting violence” by saying I was surprised Kanye hadn’t murder/suicided Kim or Taylor yet as a joke. I think my far left progressive comments were more likely the reason.
It’s definitely gotten pretty weird. I’m on my last warning for inciting violence over saying I’m surprised no one has gotten killed yet, in a poorly designed traffic intersection that results in near-daily collisions near my house. Seriously. Someone reported it for inciting violence, the mods on the thread removed it and Reddit warned me and banned my account for a period. I’ve had a few other ones that were pretty random too.
Everyone is still using it. It sucks since i just want everyone to come on piefed/lemmy. I really have no idea what reddit has to do to make people switch. Its kinda like seeing a toxic relationship.
Based on the number of people still using the cesspit that Twitter turned into, Reddit has to sink a hell of a lot lower to get people to stop using it.
I finally left just a couple weeks ago. Seeing and hearing about entire accounts being banned after simple peaceful criticism of political leaders showed me that they use poorly programmed algorithms to issue bans and also confirm them on appeals without any reasonable human elements. It also seemed like some accounts would get perma-banned by simply complaining about this process.
poorly programmed algorithms
“Intentionally programmed algorithms”… ftfy
I got banned for suggesting someone put a hole in the Charlie Kirk statue
Mods on Lemmy are at least as ban happy than those on Reddit. Appeals? They don’t exist at all. At least you can easily make a new account on different instance on Lemmy. Reddit has strong enforcement of also banning all accounts they can link to yours with cookie and IP.
Lemmy admins are likely to comply with local law enforcement as well, if they have to. So far it’s just untested because of irrelevance.
Lemmy is self hosted and most people would for sure handover whatever they could if the feds just asked
Fuck ICE
Once again, just in case no one heard, FUCK ICE
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I’ll say it for you then.
#FUCK ICE ✊
why don’t you take a marker and a white shirt, write that on that shirt, and actually wear it outside, instead of doing this.
why don’t you go get your diaper changed and take a nap big piss baby.
Why don’t you go criticize someone in real life too.
ohh deflection! nice one, but I already made the shirt! Why don’t you do something with your life in real life?
I’ve managed to do two things
They can’t fucking WAIT until this ID verification goes through. Literally frothing at the mouth for it.
I don’t get it. Once ID checks are here, do they think people will keep expressing these kinds of opinions publicly? Oh course not, they’re just going to keep going further underground online or find offline ways, do they really think we’ll just keep posting incriminating stuff with our real name attached?
The oppression is the goal. They want you to tell 10 people locally, not 10 million worldwide.
Yeah but the 10 locals are the ones that might actually end up doing something instead of shouting into the digital void.
Suppression of anything critical of Trump and the other snowflakes is the goal. Oppression is their favorite tool, but they’ll settle for intimidation which still ends up being effective even when our institutions uphold the Constitution.
do they think people will keep expressing these kinds of opinions publicly? Oh course not
People are already pushing all kind of extreme and suspicious opinions on multiple websites under their “official” name that can be found on their ID. This won’t change. And the risk isn’t people stopping saying thing at one point; it’s the list of “allowed” topics changing over time, then going back to older content.
there goes “their freedom of speech”, hypocrites
Today is a good day to use Lemmy.
This is a reminder to everyone. If you or someone you know is still on Reddit. Use an extension to bulk deleted everything before deleting the account. You’re friends and family are not safe posting on reddit.
I am no fan of reddit but in this case Reddit appears to have championed this users anonymity going so far as to actively draw the ire of the administration.
- Reddit refused to comply with the initial administrative subpoena
- the Federal government came back with this grand jury subpoena and warned Reddit not to disclose the existence of the subpoena or they’d consider it interference in federal law enforcement
- Reddit complied with this new legally binding subpoena, but did not comply with the demand to keep it a secret. In the contrary, they immediately alerted the user of the subpoena which allowed him time to immediately lawyer up.
You’re not wrong that you’re not safe posting on Reddit, but if this case is any indication you’re not any less safe posting in Reddit than any other site, including Lemmy.
You’re not wrong that you’re not safe posting on Reddit, but if this case is any indication you’re not any less safe posting in Reddit than any other site, including Lemmy.
You can choose the location (and thus legal jurisdiction) of your home instance, but yeah, in general, I think that people need to be aware that server operators on the Threadiverse are probably not going to fight legal battles on your behalf.
We had someone ask about turning over IP addresses to law enforcement a while back on lemmy.today. The lemmy.today server admin gave what I’d call probably a pretty accurate answer.
https://lemmy.today/post/7255213
How will Lemmy Today handle IP subpoenas?
Lemmy instances are run by volunteers who wants to see a social media network without big tech.
I dont think you can trust any of those volunteers, including this one, to not comply with law enforcement. Thats not why we are running instances. Its about providing a platform without tracking, ads and algorithms for talking to other people and having a good time.
Hope that makes sense.
Use a VPN if you have a reason to. :)
It linked to a similar question for lemmy.dbzer0.com:
How will dbzer0 handle IP subpoenas?
Don’t know man. I’m not making enough in donations to pay for the server costs, never mind hiring lawyers. I’ll deal with this when I have to 😅
There are platforms more-aimed at providing harder pseudonymity. I’d put Hyphanet fairly high on the list of “a pain in the ass to track a poster down due to technical barriers” list (though that comes with very real performance and latency and suchlike costs).
To answer for Quokk.au. If I had to, I’d delete the instance and all data before ever handing anything over. They can take me to court if need be.
If you’re subpoenaed and a request for discovery is not met because you destroyed evidence, that comes with severe penalties. In court, you’d have to prove that you didn’t intentionally destroy data. You’ll have to find an attorney that can protect you against a government or powerful corporation.
Depending on the country and jurisdiction, intentional spoliation of data will lead to harsh penalties, criminal charges, expensive financial restitution, and jail time. Would you want to serve multiple years in jail and pay tens of thousands (or much more) in fines just to protect the data on your server? Would you want criminal charges and job loss, and the incredible difficulty of finding employment again when you get out of jail? Permanent criminal charges on your record for the rest of your life?
If yes, you’re very, very brave. Most other server owners would just comply. They’re already struggling to pay their bills, including serving Lemmy. Must be expensive trying to get legal representation when they’re ordered to turn over data.
I run an instance filled with trans people and anarchists, I would risk a lot to protect them from the state.
Big props to you! Thank you for defendeing their rights.
Props to you, homie. I didn’t personally know about your instance, so your character is courageous and exemplary. I’d like to think my values are aligned with yours as I’ll stand up for trans people, too.
While the likelihood of being served a subpoena to turn over your data is slim, just be careful. Remember - even if someone else wrote it, it’s YOUR data. If you already don’t have a great moderation team on your server, make sure to set ground rules and stamp out calls to violence and other things that would get someone in loads of trouble. The state won’t target an online community, but persons making active threats to the state (e.g., a call for assassination of a public figure, organising violence and harm, etc.) will get you in loads of trouble.
If I was on your server and some dipshit was threatening assassinating a politician or organising a hit, you got served a subpoena, and you were getting ready to delete your instance, I’d jump in and request you to stop. I don’t think it’d be worth nuking the whole community and all the data so you get punished on behalf of that one dipshit. Don’t think it’d be worth having your life destroyed because one edgelord thinks it’s great to say stuff like that online without reprisal, in our state-sponsored surveillance system.
Edit: on mobile so fixed a bunch of typos
Edit 2: On turning over data. In the discovery phase of litigation, they’re legally obligated to cull the request for information to what is relevant and in-scope. In my above example, the courts want the IP address and other identifiers of the dipshit that called for the assassination of a public figure. You’d only have to turn over the data for that one person, NOT everyone on your server. Just to put the facts out there.
Why should the instance care about my ip? Why would they log it? Idem emails. Why tf do you care? We need a privacy preserving/enhancing server.
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That is what I said
We know. We exist out of spite.
Life is not safe. It’s pretty relatively safe, as compared to living under a lean-to in the woods with bears and disease carrying insects and such, and even that’s safer than people make it out to be. However, there are “dangerous things” out there, both in the woods and in the streets and in the organized crime / government. Are you more likely to die of a car crash, or a malicious action of some organized group, or a car crash arranged by some organized group? It’s really hard to be sure, but if the available information is anything close to accurate, you’re better off worrying about a car crash than a meteorite strike, or shark bite, or bad people targeting you.
harder to make a international site comply though
Only if that country doesn’t have info sharing treaties with the US. So much of Europe isn’t any safer than in the US.
Isn’t Reddit owned by China? WTF is Trump going to do?
Reddit is headquartered in San Francisco
Reddit is owned by Vanguard, Blackrock, JP Morgan, etc
You’d really think they could afford hiring some moderators.
You think it’s worth it for me to do that if I haven’t been on Reddit since 2022?
Ya. I just got a 7 day ban for telling people to go and train with their guns at shooting ranges just to get used to using them before the civil war starts.
Bulk deletion of your posts might remove useful information from the internet.
Well, maybe it’s now all saved to ChatGPT‘s faulty memory.
From what I’ve been hearing that hasn’t been working anymore.
Can you do that for a banned account?
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If you wait long enough they’ll unban your account. I lost my 10 year old account a few months before the API debacle over referencing piracy in /r/movies and then inadvertently commenting there on an alt account, and just discovered that it was completely restored a few months ago.
Good to know, since I was shadow-banned for “circumventing a ban” even though my account wasn’t banned to begin with. (No, I didn’t have any alt accounts)
That’s exactly what mine was for. I think it was around 2 years later that it was restored.
Nope
bro you need to relax and touch some grass, fr fr.
