Yesterday while cooking I set off the smoke detector, no I did not burn anything. They go off when I cook over a high heat. And yesterday once they started going off they would not stop. I ended up having to disconnect them all (they are hard wired with an interconnect) and I replaced them this morning. Aaaaaaaand let me tell you, I had a sleepless night last night knowing there were no detectors installed.
https://www.southernliving.com/how-often-should-you-replace-smoke-detectors-8774122
This is why I just go ahead and buy the new ones that come with batteries that last 10 years. You’ll have to replace the whole unit when they die anyway.
This is the strat. They aren’t even any more expensive than a “cheap” smoke detector once you factor in the cost of batteries (not to mention the cost of all the sleepless nights when the infernal thing is beeping because the battery is low)
I replace 'em every other fire.
YSK that those old detectors will most likely not have the same plugs as the old ones, either. Prepare to figure out what circuit they’re all on and a rewire with new dongles (pigtails? Not sure of the right name). Ah, what a fun weekend. 15 min turned into a couple of hours.
New ones had the same pigtail as the old one (both were Kiddie brand), but I did have one I had to rewire. As far as I can tell, they do not have a dedicated circuit, so I had to shut down the entire house.
Depending on the building code / age of house it may or may not be on an individual circuit.
I think newer homes don’t so there’s one less point of failure that can prevent them for going off in a fire. I could be wrong though.
Mine were Kidde as well. They were installed by my dad maybe 17 years ago when he built the home. I eventually found the breaker after a fun game of yelling “Is the light on?” I laughed when I found out it was on the same breaker as the septic aerator (which I had apparently also attached to a garage circuit overhead for work lights and ceiling outlets for tools due to the wall circuit overloading). Fun fact for the people who may not be familiar with septic aerators - when they lose power they have a box on a separate circuit for the failure alarm (which isn’t very loud but annoying af).
Reminds me of this, couldn’t find the OG image unfortunately.
Hate it when people overlay unnecessary text, I guess it’s for the simpletons
There are no gangsters here. You do not know what that word means.
This is only true for the Americium based smoke detectors. The newer photoelectric cell fire detectors don’t decay like Americium detectors, and as long as you replace the battery it’ll be good for however long it’s internal components (capacitors and whatnot) will last.
Technology Connections has a good video about this subject:
The half life for americium 241 is like 450 years. The 10 year replacement has nothing to do with decay. It’s just a non specific safety in case any of the electronics or board etc start to fail. Photoelectric detectors have the same 10 year recommendation as a max.
It’s actually recommend by many organizations (like the NFPA) to replace photoelectric detectors more often than ionization detectors, if anything.
It’s tuned to a specific output and isn’t exactly field adjustable. Certainly it will continue to be radioactive long after you’re dead, but that doesn’t mean it will still be working properly.
I know exactly how they work. I’m a firefighter and a hazmat technician. Plus I work on and repair electronics as a hobby. Your smoke detector failing after 10 or 30 years has zero to do with radioactive decay. It’s from contamination (dust) and sensor degradation. Once the metal plates inside get enough buildup from dust (like smoke dust and regular dust) and contamination from humidity, the charge that’s supposed to be detected between those plates from the ionization stays lower all the time. That means less actual “smoke” is needed to drop it below the threshold. This happens MUCH faster than radioactive decay reducing what it will ionize.
This is plain WRONG and DANGEROUS.
The issue is NOT the Americum but the natural degration of the photoelectric cells and the accumulation of dirt within the test chamber.
Even before that time the risk for false alarms is increased substantially by degration before the chances for sucessful alarming decrease rapidly. Due to that they actually withstand aging actually worse than ionisation based devices.
Sientific sources?
here.
(Besides: Americum has a decay time of over 400 years,btw)
Your third source is about the 2020 follow-up study of the 2017 study in your first source. You’ve “only” got three independent sources even though it looks like four (“only” in scare quotes because three is still plenty).
A follow up is a absolutely regular thing and does not diminish neither study.
I didn’t say they were diminished. I said they weren’t independent.
Alec in his own video mentions that the issue isn’t that the Americium decays, but that the electronics themselves age and fail, which applies to both the ionization detectors and photoelectric detectors.
This is one of the things you just don’t wanna mess with, as such a failure is completely unpredictable, and from what I know some manufacturers are even beginning to make detector units with non-replaceable batteries, intended to be replaced whole when the battery dies after years of runtime, to make it impossible to keep using a detector after its rated lifetime.
I know some manufacturers are even beginning to make detector units with non-replaceable batteries, intended to be replaced whole when the battery dies after years of runtime, to make it impossible to keep using a detector after its rated lifetime.
I’m sure that’s the reason say they do it, but that smells like standard corporate planned obsolescence and profit seeking with a great PR team.
I am an engineer and it’s just legitimately hard to build any kind of sensor that lasts and stays accurate longer than like 10 years especially without maintenance. They do intentionally design them so that they don’t last longer, but that’s because a design that would last longer would costs like 10x as much and require a lot of maintenance and calibration that your average homeowner is simply not going to do. It’s honestly surprising you can make an accurate smoke detector that even lasts 10 years as cheap as they are.
It’s more to do with improved battery technology. New detectors have lithium batteries that last the same ten years as the detector.
Yes, but no. You really should replace your detectors every decade. They will likely work perfectly for twice that, but is it worth the risk over like $100 in smoke detectors?
So it does sort of force you to replace it after a decade, but you should anyhow.
It’s also well worth it, because getting on a chair or ladder and buying new overpriced 9v batteries every year (if you’re all proper about changing them) is a pain in the ass compared to once a decade. The more of a pain it is to get to your detectors, the more a 10 year one becomes worth it.
You’re supposed to hit your test button once a month to check their functions, but I dont think anyone anywhere actually does that. If they tell me they do I’ll just assume they’re a liar.
This is anecdotical but I moved into an apartment with a 30 year old ionizing smoke detector, and the failure was it was too sensitive, I assume because there were less electrons being emitted from the radioactive element, any faint smoke caused it to go off. Eventually it got into a state where it would always be in an alert state, and was beeping 100% of the time, which was when the landlord finally replaced it.
My assumption with the 10 year replacement recommendation for Americium based smoke detectors is to replace it before it becomes too sensitive and annoying, because they were worried some people would remove the battery and just live without an active smoke detector.
There’s no radiation drop after just 30 years from americium 241. It has a 450 year half life. After decades electric components start to fail and\or things get dirty. After 30 years of getting smoke in it, there was probably a layer of dust\smoke over where the radiation is at that were blocking some of the radiation all the time, that made it more sensitive.
Same issues will happen with photoelectric detectors. It’s recommended to replace both types after no longer than 10 years. I have no idea where the person you responded to got the information about them not needing replaced as often as ionization detectors. If anything, it’s actually the opposite.
I was about to link to the same video. From what I remember though both types have strength and weaknesses in regards to the type of fire.
Edit: watched it again so ionization smoke detectors are better at detecting active fire, although his conclusion is that the benefit is not as big and overall photoelectric ones are better.
According to the one i just had to replace, combo carbon monoxide detectors need to be replaced. I don’t know how the carbon monoxide part works, but i wonder if it’s a reagent or something.
And if you live for rent, at least over here in Germany your landlords are obliged to replace them regularly, but like you say that just means they’ll replace them with previous ones that have been checked and had batteries replaced.
Hehe.
You want to bet your life on that? You want to bet the life of your kids on that?
A motion to rename every element that’s named after a place. All in favor updoot, all opposed downdoot
Okay, let’s start with Helium (named after the sun)
That’s a celestial object, not a place. The sun is traveling at 230 km/s around the galaxy. It’s not a “place.”
The sun is a place. The moon is a place. Earth is a place. A specific location on the earth is also a place.
Anything you insert into a sentence describing the origin point of something traveling is a place.
Okay, then how about renaming every element that’s named after a nation-state?
Edit your comment and I’ll maybe come back and bother with voting.
No vote. Doot!
*dooting
You’re supposed to test them fairly regularly.
I get that monthly might be a pain, but once or twice a year is probably smart, for safety equipment.
Aaaaaaaand let me tell you, I had a sleepless night last night knowing there were no detectors installed.
This seems really weird. Smoke detectors are important, but the odds of a fire any given night are incredibly low. To me, replacing a detector would be a chore I’d get to within a week, and I definitely wouldn’t lose sleep over it.
Living in a country where smoke detectors basically don’t exist and house fires are extremely rare (rare, not nonexistent, we had a pretty terrible fire in a bar on silvester) I always wonder if we are just stupid for not having them or why there are so many in places like the USA.
I’d say stupid. I live in a country where most houses are brick walls + concrete floors, and smoke detectors are still common + since a few years also mandated by the government.
The government mandate came after it was found that of the dozens of people that died every year from house fires, 95% suffocated in their sleep.
Some numbers for my region: ~7m population, 70% of houses had smoke detection before the mandate, on average 63 died per year from house fires.
Some incorrect approximative math: Lets assume that the amount of dead could have been halved if those 30% houses had 2 smoke detectors per person (lets say 2 cheap ones for 2x20 euros per 10 years): 7m x 0.3 x 2 x 20€ /10 /63 x2 = a cost of 267€ per year per life saved. Imo that’s a no brainer, it’d be stupid to not invest in smoke detection.
We had 0.2 deaths / 100k population but I feel stupid for not having one. You are right, they cost basically nothing for some piece of mind.
Plus new smoke detectors are usually also carbon monoxide detectors. So you get twice the peace of mind, cause carbon monoxide is a silent killer. It has no color, no odor, no warning signs at all. It’s happened where a whole family goes to bed and doesn’t wake up.
That we actually have. Our apartment has ventilation (not sure if that is the right word, it replaces the air continuous with fresh air from the outside) and integrated into that system is a carbon monoxide detector.
What is even crazier in my opinion is that you can get poisened by smoke while sleeping as you usually don’t smell smoke during sleep.
I guess I’ll get some of those 20 buck ones, they just need to spot something burning.
Other countries use less flammable materials in their construction. Wood frame construction is very common in the US due to drastically lower cost of wood vs block. We also had something called balloon frame construction for many years which made it much more likely for fire to travel within the walls. That being said not having detectors isn’t a great idea either since most are combo smoke and carbon monoxide detectors.
combo smoke and carbon monoxide detectors
In Mexico/central america they don’t shut the windows with the heater on like we do in the cold north.
I live in Latin America and I don’t even have a heater. My climate control options are “window open” and “window closed.”
Don’t they all do that now? Tell you when they’ve expired?
Yes.
Not only that, the current generation of smoke detectors have sealed batteries so you can’t even open them up to change batteries or anything. So once they expire in 10 years they start their incessant “I’m dying” non-stop beeping - that’s when you dispose of the entire smoke detector and buy a new one.
I’ve read that they don’t detect smoke as well after 10 years anyway (e.g. even more false alarms) so it’s probably for the best to get rid of old ones.
Maybe, if it is made past a certain date. Mine in the image, from 2005, did not.
Admittedly I did similar. At one point I had a non-working detector and noticed it was long expired when I tried to replace the battery. I realized I had been in my house more than ten years and the detectors had been installed by a previous owner, probably in the early 2000’s. Those did NOT beep when they expired
When I replaced those, the new ones were all configured to beep when expired and they were starting to push the sealed detectors with ten year non-replaceable battery. Sure enough, ten years later they all started beeping that they were expired.
I guess I assumed that it’s been 20 years and most people will have replaced detectors at least once. In my state, there’s a required inspection that all detectors are up to date before a house can be sold
(Which is really annoying because mine are all battery but the current standard is they must interconnect so I’ll need some electrical work if I want to sell my house)
You mean those things that make noise when I don’t want them to?
Yeah, I removed the batteries.
Dying from smoke inhalation in my sleep sounds like one of the easier ways to go.
They make ones now with an internal battery that lasts 10 years. No more chirping and swapping 9V batteries.
It sucks ass. I’ve gone through about 5 of them well short of 10 years. I do see that this brand released a new version, but this is the one I had. Absolute garbage. They kept giving false positives, and they have no replaceable batteries so they just become E-waste after you disable them. This is the one I had.
You know those have a 10 year warranty right? Including the specific model you linked.
How many ~$25 items do you fill out a warranty claim for? Mine went into the bin and I got another.
Not many, but I don’t buy a lot of $25 products in this day and age. Sometimes electronics fail early, that’s why there’s a warranty. I also don’t go complaining about something when it would have been replaced by warranty either.
The fact they warrant the devices through their entire expected lifespan instead of only a year is notable.
That’s all they sell at Costco now and I’m worried they won’t last 10 years. They’re kinda pricey too $70 for two.
My hardwired detector was $73 for 1.
I’ve had the same problem with them. I don’t recommend them either.
Even if they do have a warranty, they aren’t reliable enough to be worth doing the warranty claim on, imho.
I’ve gone back to the old battery style and gotten some rechargeable 9 volt.
In fact, smoke alarms with user-replaceable batteries became illegal in Scotland a couple of years ago.
Still waiting to see if the same regulation gets applied across the entire UK, but anecdotally I’ve noticed it’s already much harder to find anything other than 10-year battery or hardwired models in my part of England.
What’s the reason behind that legislation?
Safety. What else?
You can see a news report from when it came into force here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60203081
The guidance is here: https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/pages/where-and-what-to-buy/
Which includes this part on batteries:
Replaceable batteries cannot be used because the sensors in the alarm degrade over time and so will not be able to detect heat or smoke. This is why the alarm has a limited lifespan. Sealed, tamper-proof battery units must be used because they are safer than those which allow the user to change the batteries.
There have been several tragedies over the years where alarms failed because their batteries expired, or people have removed them. Any alarm you buy will have information on how long it lasts, which can be up to 10 years.
I was looking at one of those when I was buying new detectors.
Those are the only battery ones legal to sell where I live.
If you’re not living in USA-land you’re probably fine to simply change the battery every few years because you’ve got a photoelectric smoke detector.
Ionization based smoke detectors (that require changing because radioactive…) are more unsafe and usually only allowed in special cases in non third world countries like the EU.
Oh and you also can’t just throw them into the trash because you know radioactivity… except in USA-land…
Photoelectric smoke detectors also need to be replaced every ten years or so, and the radioactivity of ionization alarms is well within safe levels as long as you aren’t taking them apart to eat the 241Am. They’re sensitive to different things but the photoelectric ones are probably better suited to modern home fires (but they’re more prone to false-positives from kitchen smoke).
Pointless America Bad and radiation fear-mongering.
idk my locale in statesia you gotta take them to the special dump
Mine expired and decided to sing me the song of their people at 4am.
That was an exciting night, I’ll tell you that…
They always wait until night.
They always wait until nighttime.
Ours were just replaced in our rental house. They were last replaced in 2004 and our corpo landlord just doesn’t give a fuck.
I don’t think our dryer vent has been cleaned in a decade. This place is a fire trap.
Found out my dryer vent duct was disconnected on both ends. I wouldn’t be surprised 🤷
I’ve warned them about this and our gutters rotting away the wood on our patio and they told me both were tenant’s responsibility, despite a whole section on their website saying otherwise.
I couldn’t give a fuck less about this house. I close on my first HOME next week!
You should know I passive aggressively want to die.
That’s a reasonable reaction to the current state of things.
Better by fire than by ICE.
But are you fine with dying from burning or smoking inhalation?
Smoke inhalation yes burning no
