Coffee has never been proven harmful, and may be protective for the brain. I quit caffeine a couple times when younger for months and (once past the initial withdrawal headache) all that happened was I got more migraines and gained a couple of pounds, saw no benefits.
So no.
Alcohol I practice moderation, once or twice a week but never, ever, ever an everyday drinker. That I’ve taken years off and didn’t feel better but not worse like when I tried no caffeine.
So usually no on that as well but I do sometimes go a month or two without.
You’re in a stimulant psychosis, probably. That or you just said that while knowing you’ve never actually even looked that claim up, while reading all the “caffeine is necessary for your brain” research funded by companies like Coca-Cola.
There’s a reason there’s a huge warning on energy drinks to only have a maximum of three a day. Less so for pregnant women. (Because of the caffeine content, which is in similar levels as coffee.)
Caffeine and cannabis are similarly low-risk drugs, but there are some important differences.
“In wise hands poison is medicine. In foolish hands medicine is poison.” – Casanova
Long-term caffeine use kills between 1,000 to 10,000 people every year in the US, from “stress, ulcers and triggering irregular heartbeats,” according to the US Bureau of Mortality Statistics.
Cannabis overuse deaths are, again, zero, according to the same source
Conclusion
To conclude, caffeine is clearly more risky, more dangerous, more deadly, more harmful and more costly than cannabis in every category – overdose deaths, overuse deaths, withdrawal symptoms and acute toxicity.
The only area where cannabis provides the greater risk is in regards to the impairment levels of novice users.
Regulations that treat cannabis as far more dangerous than caffeine don’t reflect reality, and should be challenged by drug peace activists. Society should treat each drug according to the risks that drug provides, rather than making rules based on ignorant myths and racist, outdated traditions.
How about
Caffeine Linked to Hallucinations
Hard-core coffee and tea drinkers tend to see and hear things that aren’t there
According to a study published this week in the journal Personality and Individual Differences, “high caffeine users”* are three times more likely to experience auditory hallucinations—hearing voices when no has actually spoken—than people who consume little or no caffeine.
And obviously we know a hard upper limit for caffeine, after which people fucking die. No such thing for cannabis.
Caffeine is the most widely consumed psychoactive compound worldwide. It is mostly found in coffee, tea, energizing drinks and in some drugs. However, it has become really easy to obtain pure caffeine (powder or tablets) on the Internet markets. Mechanisms of action are dose-dependent. Serious toxicities such as seizure and cardiac arrhythmias, seen with caffeine plasma concentrations of 15 mg/L or higher, have caused poisoning or, rarely, death; otherwise concentrations of 3–6 mg/kg are considered safe. Caffeine concentrations of 80–100 mg/L are considered lethal.
Ok, that was unnecessary. We could go on rant about excess anything, like oxygen or water, also potentially causing harm or even death. People drinking beverages designed to have excess caffeine and other stimulants are not comparable to what would be considered normal consumption. FWIW I think energy drinks suck, they absolutely can cause harm.
Having a couple cups of coffee a day, as long as you don’t have any deleterious effects, has been associated with health benefits. Leave it at that.
“I want to be ignorant of any possible downsides in my addiction! >:( I don’t want to hear ‘science’ about it, I listen to my feelings.”
Especially when
FWIW I think energy drinks suck, they absolutely can cause harm.
That’s like someone dissing vaping while reeking of old tobacco. Rofl.
We could go on rant about excess anything, like oxygen or water,
“Sola dosis facit venenum” pffft. No, we really can’t in the same way. Water isn’t toxic in any amounts. Dehydration through hyponatremia is a thing called water toxicity, but it’s not aptly named, as you need distilled water and can’t have any salt, otherwise the water won’t be “toxic”. Also, you can breathe 100% oxygen and be completely fine.
Caffeine LD50 values are honestly rather low. Not as low as alcohol, but still, pretty low. And the amount it takes for harmful effects to show up is literally on the same level as an average to high daily caffeine user.
So no, your substance use isn’t the same as drinking water and breathing. All substance use has inherent risks, no matter how small. Yes, even caffeine and cannabis. What is ridiculous to me is that the same folk who literally can’t manage without a daily dose of their chosen substance without physical withdrawal (>70% caffeine users get headaches if they stop) and think there’s no harm in it, are the same people who think cannabis causes psychosis.
Stimulant psychosis is much more likely. Just like is psychosis brought on by alcohol.
excess caffeine and other stimulants are not comparable to what would be considered normal consumption
Ignorant. Just so ignorant.
Like any addict you’re rationalising your addiction. But unlike many addicts, you’re at the same time also judging others for the same addiction you have and making up “facts” you feel are right.
Regular, excessive coffee consumption (typically >4 cups/day or >400-600mg caffeine) can cause negative effects including, insomnia, jitters, anxiety, and heart palpitations. It may cause digestive distress (acid reflux, diarrhea), increased blood pressure, addiction, and potential bone density issues. Regular use often leads to tolerance, requiring more coffee to achieve the same effect
Why is it always “lol do you think I’m reading all that” or an equivalent reply where you’re trying to mock a user on a forum for… using the forum.
And it’s never to do with the length (writing that took less time than smoking a cigarette, which I used to do years ago), but the content. You’re a bit ashamed that your take is so objectively biased due to your addiction.
“Coffee! Aaah, black as night and sweet as hell mmmm. Great, healthy, amazing!”
“A carbonated sugar-free drink with less caffeine? Poison!”
I don’t need to reply to a WoT that completely ignored the substance and intent of my reply. You’re wasting our time. I don’t see any reason to reply when you’re making up everything you think I would say, with a massive sprinkling of hyperbole, just fine on your own. You don’t need me to join the conversation you’re having in your head.
Ah yes, after the “you’re wasting your time on Lemmy” it’s the “I’m not gonna reply”, he replied.
when you’re making up everything you think I would say
You literally said “coffee has never been proven harmful”. That’s like saying “cigarette smoking has never been associated with cancer” or “there’s no evidence we ever went to the moon”. About on the same level, factually and intellectually.
Secondly, you said that energydrinks are “definitely harmful” and thought they are overcaffeinated, when average coffee contains more caffeine than they do.
You don’t need me to join the conversation you’re having in your head.
Projecting a bit there, since you’re the one who’s literally making shit up, because you think it feels correct because of your ignorance. I never said something as silly as “coffee has never been proven harmful”, now did I?
ETA
Coffee and I also like iced green tea. You are going to argue that unsweetened iced green tea is also a killer drink?
I am just not that worried about it, based on decades of use without apparent personal harm, and evident personal benefit. I enjoy the coffee and tea and the “high” from them, which I interpreted as the point of OP’s question about substances.
I don’t care about your addictions, you’re welcome to have them. But to pretend it isn’t an addiction and is actually healthy for you is more ridiculous than those “you can’t get addicted to weed” bros.
Not to mention that caffeine is a more risky and harmful drug than cannabis, except for when it comes to first-time inebriation, where cannabis slightly takes the lead.
70% of daily users get physical withdrawal if they skip their daily fix.
Physical. Withdrawal.
Caffeine makes you much more likely to hear auditory hallucinations. We had one coworker at a phone dispatch, who yelled loud af and always banged her keyboard constantly, some sort of neurosis. She was literally banned from doing orders that the govt paid for because of her massive error rate, because she was always so amped on caffeine as to be half-blind. No-one drunk the shit she made. It was like tar. And she had like a dozen cups during the working day.
“Healthy” yeah sure.
If your daily caffeine fix is not an addiction and just for your health, would you believe my daily wake&bake is also just for health reasons and carries absolutely zero risk?
I didn’t say I am not addicted. Physical addiction, sure, because I get the headache when quitting. But as a drug I like it and it’s been an overall benefit to my life and health. Fewer migraines with daily coffee than without. Meaning even after a couple of years off it, increased incidence of migraine if I abstain from all caffeine. Reduced incidence if I use it daily.
My ex wrecked his teeth smoking pot, so I do not think smoking anything is good for you. But no I wouldn’t judge, whatever works for you. And no I don’t think cannabis is bad, certainly ought not be illegal I just hate the effect. Blah feeling, irritated not high just feel tired and slow.
Except that’s an oxymoron. You mean dependency. That’s a physical thing. Addiction is a brain disorder. They’re actually medically two different things. Like a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Sometimes a thing can be both at the same time, but those two are distinct medical things.
But as a drug I like it
Yeah see that’s the addiction speaking.
an overall benefit to my life and health.
Luckily I’ve never heard this from people who shoot up amphetamines and go to work (driving a HGV) and think their boss can’t see they’re high as balls. Oh wait, yes I have.
so I do not think smoking anything is good for you.
And who would argue otherwise? Cannabis can be used without staining one’s teeth, unlike coffee. Just eat it.
We’re not doing a comparison between coffee and cannabis, because this thread didn’t start with me saying “cannabis has never been proven harmful”, because I know that’s not true.You however you said is “coffee has never proven to be harmful”. Yes it has. Very clearly and obviously and there’s tons of data on it.
I’m very specifically talking about coffee and not caffeine. I completely acknowledge that caffeine is addictive and may cause mental and physical ailments for some people. But coffee contains more than just caffeine and from what I gather, the positive health effects sometimes seen from coffee stem from the non-caffeine parts. And apparently for the people in those studies, the positive effects of coffee outweigh the negatives from caffeine contained within (unless they used decaffeinated coffee?).
Overall I haven’t really seen any evidence that coffee is
harmful to the brain
as you put it. And yes; I am not a biologist, so I use Wikipedia as a source for debates on the internet. I will trust my father who is a biologist and the newspaper articles written about scientific studies for lack of better on this specifik issue. If you know of better sources appropriate for my level of expertise please suggest one.
I will suggest some changes
This is great. If Wikipedia is wrong please correct it!
Moreover, no doctor will ever recommend coffee to anyone with heart issue
Maybe not, but most people also do not have heart issues. No doctor would probably recommend roller coasters to pregnant women either, but that does not mean that roller coasters in general are harmful.
How many cups of coffee before you’re in lethal territory?
Because unlike for cannabis, there really is a well documented number for that.
Caffeine also makes it three times more likely you’ll have slight auditory hallucinations.
How a Lawsuit Against Coca-Cola Convinced Americans to Love Caffeine
In 1909, the federal government brought charges against the country’s best known soft-drink manufacturer, charging it with false advertising and for quietly loading its bottles with a risky stimulant. The case — named for a seizure of specially prepared syrup — was formally titled United States vs. Forty Barrels and Twenty Kegs of Coca Cola.
Wiley and the head of his pharmaceutical division, Lyman Kebler, were focused on the “medicated” soft drinks sold to the public at that time. Many — with names like Kola-Kok and Koke — still slipped some cocaine into the mix. Others like, Seven-Up, contained lithium, and others, like Coca-Cola in the early 20th century, contained a jolting level of caffeine (a glass then was comparable to a can of Red Bull today) and were often cheerfully marketed to children. Kebler, during one of his investigative trips, was horrified to find children as young as four slugging down the stimulant-rich soft drink. He drafted a report on the beverages with the provocative title: “Habit-Forming Agents: Their Indiscriminate Sale and Use a Menace to the Public Welfare
The government lined up a formidable array of more than 20 witnesses critical of the soft drink company and its product. These included toxicologists who testified that the drink caused “reflex irritability,” behavioral scientists who warned that it was addictive — noting that the drink was nicknamed “Dope” and “Coke” — and consumers who described themselves as hooked on the drink. The testimony finished with Kebler, who declared that “caffeine is a drug having poisonous tendency.”
Coca-Cola naturally disputed all of this. Vice president Charles Howard Candler emphasized that “The company has never advertised or sold Coca-Cola under the names ‘Dope’ or ‘Coke” or any other drug-related terms.” (It did not trademark the use of “Coke” until 1945.) It also provided an assortment of happy soda drinks and a roster of toxicologists who countered the government testimony by declaring caffeine safe. “I know of no case of caffeine in any quantity causing death,” stated John Marshall, of the University of Pennsylvania, famed as one of the country’s leading toxicologists
The government would fight that decision even after Wiley’s retirement the following year and, in 1916, the U.S. Supreme Court reversed the finding and declared caffeine to be an additive under the law. Shortly later, Coca-Cola settled the case by agreeing to pay all court costs — and by cutting the amount of caffeine in its soft-drink by half
Leading toxicologist saying “no amount of caffeine is deadly” is ridiculously see-through bullshit nowadays.
Caffeine is a psychostimulant with the same central effects as the classical nervous system psychostimulants cocaine and amphetamine, according to Sergi Ferré
A variety of studies have shown caffeine withdrawal to be what Griffiths described as “a robust parametric phenomenon.” Chronic maintenance dose, duration of caffeine maintenance, and within-day frequency of dosing all impact the probability and severity of withdrawal. Even just three days of chronic exposure and once-a-day administration are sufficient to trigger withdrawal signals
Smith and colleagues conducted a longitudinal study involving 2,000 pupils. They administered two dietary surveys, one at the start and the other at the end of the school year, and collected two sets of measures of attainment and behavior. The researchers are currently analyzing cross- sectional data.3 Thus far, they have shown that those who often consumed energy drinks were more likely to have low attendance, receive a sanction, and receive poorer grades. These findings are true even when controlling for possible confounders, such as socioeconomic status and special educational needs.
Coffee has never been proven harmful, and may be protective for the brain. I quit caffeine a couple times when younger for months and (once past the initial withdrawal headache) all that happened was I got more migraines and gained a couple of pounds, saw no benefits.
So no.
Alcohol I practice moderation, once or twice a week but never, ever, ever an everyday drinker. That I’ve taken years off and didn’t feel better but not worse like when I tried no caffeine.
So usually no on that as well but I do sometimes go a month or two without.
I don’t do any other drugs.
they’re called hypertension and anxiety bruh just because a drug has benefits doesn’t mean it has no side effects
You are right, I ought to have said the benefits outweigh the risks for me, that the good is more than the harm not that it’s universally harmless.
That’s refreshingly normal tbh.
Really?
You’re in a stimulant psychosis, probably. That or you just said that while knowing you’ve never actually even looked that claim up, while reading all the “caffeine is necessary for your brain” research funded by companies like Coca-Cola.
There’s a reason there’s a huge warning on energy drinks to only have a maximum of three a day. Less so for pregnant women. (Because of the caffeine content, which is in similar levels as coffee.)
How about
https://www.science.org/content/article/caffeine-linked-hallucinations
It’s quite well documented as well
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/caffeine-linked-to-hallucinations-51161154/
And obviously we know a hard upper limit for caffeine, after which people fucking die. No such thing for cannabis.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5986491/
Obviously, because you’ve drank the koolaid of drug propaganda.
Ok, that was unnecessary. We could go on rant about excess anything, like oxygen or water, also potentially causing harm or even death. People drinking beverages designed to have excess caffeine and other stimulants are not comparable to what would be considered normal consumption. FWIW I think energy drinks suck, they absolutely can cause harm.
Having a couple cups of coffee a day, as long as you don’t have any deleterious effects, has been associated with health benefits. Leave it at that.
“I want to be ignorant of any possible downsides in my addiction! >:( I don’t want to hear ‘science’ about it, I listen to my feelings.”
Especially when
That’s like someone dissing vaping while reeking of old tobacco. Rofl.
“Sola dosis facit venenum” pffft. No, we really can’t in the same way. Water isn’t toxic in any amounts. Dehydration through hyponatremia is a thing called water toxicity, but it’s not aptly named, as you need distilled water and can’t have any salt, otherwise the water won’t be “toxic”. Also, you can breathe 100% oxygen and be completely fine.
Caffeine LD50 values are honestly rather low. Not as low as alcohol, but still, pretty low. And the amount it takes for harmful effects to show up is literally on the same level as an average to high daily caffeine user.
So no, your substance use isn’t the same as drinking water and breathing. All substance use has inherent risks, no matter how small. Yes, even caffeine and cannabis. What is ridiculous to me is that the same folk who literally can’t manage without a daily dose of their chosen substance without physical withdrawal (>70% caffeine users get headaches if they stop) and think there’s no harm in it, are the same people who think cannabis causes psychosis.
Stimulant psychosis is much more likely. Just like is psychosis brought on by alcohol.
Ignorant. Just so ignorant.
Like any addict you’re rationalising your addiction. But unlike many addicts, you’re at the same time also judging others for the same addiction you have and making up “facts” you feel are right.
https://www.medparkhospital.com/en-US/lifestyles/coffee#d
You’ve got too much free time on your hands.
Why is it always “lol do you think I’m reading all that” or an equivalent reply where you’re trying to mock a user on a forum for… using the forum.
And it’s never to do with the length (writing that took less time than smoking a cigarette, which I used to do years ago), but the content. You’re a bit ashamed that your take is so objectively biased due to your addiction.
“Coffee! Aaah, black as night and sweet as hell mmmm. Great, healthy, amazing!”
“A carbonated sugar-free drink with less caffeine? Poison!”
I don’t need to reply to a WoT that completely ignored the substance and intent of my reply. You’re wasting our time. I don’t see any reason to reply when you’re making up everything you think I would say, with a massive sprinkling of hyperbole, just fine on your own. You don’t need me to join the conversation you’re having in your head.
Ah yes, after the “you’re wasting your time on Lemmy” it’s the “I’m not gonna reply”, he replied.
You literally said “coffee has never been proven harmful”. That’s like saying “cigarette smoking has never been associated with cancer” or “there’s no evidence we ever went to the moon”. About on the same level, factually and intellectually.
Secondly, you said that energydrinks are “definitely harmful” and thought they are overcaffeinated, when average coffee contains more caffeine than they do.
Projecting a bit there, since you’re the one who’s literally making shit up, because you think it feels correct because of your ignorance. I never said something as silly as “coffee has never been proven harmful”, now did I?
I’m the one who’s linking actual science.
Coffee not powder caffeine - I know the refined drug caffeine is too strong to safely dose it. I’m not snorting caffeine or slamming monster drinks.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4862107/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-026-00409-y
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/9-reasons-why-the-right-amount-of-coffee-is-good-for-you
ETA Coffee and I also like iced green tea. You are going to argue that unsweetened iced green tea is also a killer drink?
I am just not that worried about it, based on decades of use without apparent personal harm, and evident personal benefit. I enjoy the coffee and tea and the “high” from them, which I interpreted as the point of OP’s question about substances.
Honestly, this is like listening to some old smelly smoker puffing unfiltered rollups tell me how unhealthy vaping is.
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/02/coca-cola
I don’t care about your addictions, you’re welcome to have them. But to pretend it isn’t an addiction and is actually healthy for you is more ridiculous than those “you can’t get addicted to weed” bros.
Not to mention that caffeine is a more risky and harmful drug than cannabis, except for when it comes to first-time inebriation, where cannabis slightly takes the lead.
70% of daily users get physical withdrawal if they skip their daily fix.
Physical. Withdrawal.
Caffeine makes you much more likely to hear auditory hallucinations. We had one coworker at a phone dispatch, who yelled loud af and always banged her keyboard constantly, some sort of neurosis. She was literally banned from doing orders that the govt paid for because of her massive error rate, because she was always so amped on caffeine as to be half-blind. No-one drunk the shit she made. It was like tar. And she had like a dozen cups during the working day.
“Healthy” yeah sure.
If your daily caffeine fix is not an addiction and just for your health, would you believe my daily wake&bake is also just for health reasons and carries absolutely zero risk?
I didn’t say I am not addicted. Physical addiction, sure, because I get the headache when quitting. But as a drug I like it and it’s been an overall benefit to my life and health. Fewer migraines with daily coffee than without. Meaning even after a couple of years off it, increased incidence of migraine if I abstain from all caffeine. Reduced incidence if I use it daily.
My ex wrecked his teeth smoking pot, so I do not think smoking anything is good for you. But no I wouldn’t judge, whatever works for you. And no I don’t think cannabis is bad, certainly ought not be illegal I just hate the effect. Blah feeling, irritated not high just feel tired and slow.
Except that’s an oxymoron. You mean dependency. That’s a physical thing. Addiction is a brain disorder. They’re actually medically two different things. Like a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Sometimes a thing can be both at the same time, but those two are distinct medical things.
Yeah see that’s the addiction speaking.
Luckily I’ve never heard this from people who shoot up amphetamines and go to work (driving a HGV) and think their boss can’t see they’re high as balls. Oh wait, yes I have.
And who would argue otherwise? Cannabis can be used without staining one’s teeth, unlike coffee. Just eat it.
We’re not doing a comparison between coffee and cannabis, because this thread didn’t start with me saying “cannabis has never been proven harmful”, because I know that’s not true. You however you said is “coffee has never proven to be harmful”. Yes it has. Very clearly and obviously and there’s tons of data on it.
Yeah bro it definitely isn’t addictive and harmful to the brain. You are in DENIAL blud
Can you cite your sources, please?
As Wells said, coffee has never been proven definitively harmful, and some studies even indicate lower mortality rates among coffee-drinkers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_coffee?wprov=sfla1
How do you know coffee is harmful to the brain?
I’m very skeptical of those food science papers that claim eg. coffee causes longer life expectancy, they don’t usually hold up
That’s fair. My main point is that coffee hasn’t been proven harmful. I admit the health benefits are more shaky.
And are mostly funded by Coca-Cola etc
https://time.com/5405132/coca-cola-trial-caffeine-history/
Moreover, no doctor will ever recommend coffee to anyone with heart issue
I’m very specifically talking about coffee and not caffeine. I completely acknowledge that caffeine is addictive and may cause mental and physical ailments for some people. But coffee contains more than just caffeine and from what I gather, the positive health effects sometimes seen from coffee stem from the non-caffeine parts. And apparently for the people in those studies, the positive effects of coffee outweigh the negatives from caffeine contained within (unless they used decaffeinated coffee?).
Overall I haven’t really seen any evidence that coffee is
as you put it. And yes; I am not a biologist, so I use Wikipedia as a source for debates on the internet. I will trust my father who is a biologist and the newspaper articles written about scientific studies for lack of better on this specifik issue. If you know of better sources appropriate for my level of expertise please suggest one.
This is great. If Wikipedia is wrong please correct it!
Maybe not, but most people also do not have heart issues. No doctor would probably recommend roller coasters to pregnant women either, but that does not mean that roller coasters in general are harmful.
How many cups of coffee before you’re in lethal territory?
Because unlike for cannabis, there really is a well documented number for that.
Caffeine also makes it three times more likely you’ll have slight auditory hallucinations.
Leading toxicologist saying “no amount of caffeine is deadly” is ridiculously see-through bullshit nowadays.
If you think caffeine is without harms and even healthy for you, you’ve drunk the koolaid of corporate propaganda.
How do you know coffee isn’t harmful to the brain? Oh right, because you just don’t like the idea and never even thought to look it uo.