Volodymyr Zelensky, in the next phase of talks to end the war in Ukraine, intends to draw a red line at the most contentious issue on the table: the Russian demand for Ukraine’s sovereign territory. As long as he remains the nation’s president, Zelensky will not agree to give up land in exchange for peace, Ukraine’s chief negotiator, Andriy Yermak, told me today in an exclusive interview.
“Not a single sane person today would sign a document to give up territory,” said Yermak, who has served as Zelensky’s chief of staff, lead negotiator, and closest aide throughout the full-scale war with Russia.
“As long as Zelensky is president, no one should count on us giving up territory. He will not sign away territory,” he told me by telephone from Kyiv. “The constitution prohibits this. Nobody can do that unless they want to go against the Ukrainian constitution and the Ukrainian people.”
If Russia offered back the nuclear weapons Ukraine gave them in the 90s, maybe Ukraine would cede land in exchange.
The article literally says no lmao
Because if they did, EVERY SINGLE country that wants to invade another, including Russia, will know that if they just wait a year everyone will forget about the sovereign land they stole…
With the Russians and MAGA, one should sleep with one eye open. The Russians are in a wartime economy and can produce more weapons than they lose on the battlefield. The only way to stop them and throw back the Russians is to create another 1917 revolt.
Russia has been drained to the dregs, far as vehicles go. People go over sat footage and count the amount of machines in the vehicle parks. Covert Cabal made a video on that several days ago.
Russia Has Began a MASSIVE withdraw of ancient T-72 Ural and A variant tanks
russia needs another lenin (well whole world does)
As a Russian communist with relatives in Ukraine, count me in!
(Historical context for others: 1917 has seen two revolutions, February one, which ended monarchy, and October one, which brought bolsheviks, the communists and socialists siding with Lenin, to power. Lenin has then taken Russia out of the World War I)
It’s not simply a bad political decision to give up territory it’s illogical as well.
The fact that Russia is even engaging in a war with Ukraine indicates that they are duplicitous since they agreed not to attack Ukraine in order to get Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons.
Any deal with Russia will be violated as soon as it suits Russia to violate it. Giving up a territory for peace simply gives Russia the opportunity to rebuild their forces, as soon as those forces are rebuilt they will violate the peace treaty. Again.
agreed not to attack Ukraine in order to get Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons.
Russia argues that there was a regime change in 2014 which released them from that agreement.
That’s not how agreements work. If it was, they would be pointless.
Minsk II, they are pointless. People even question US and French Nato commitment.
But hypothetically speaking, why should Russia be bound to the agreement if the West actually did a regime change?
What about the majority of Ukranians that voted for the gov that got overthrown in 2014? Their voices and opinions don’t count?
Opinions change, afterall those same people voted at least partly for Zelenskyi
Russia says a lot of things
Shocking new informartion shows that russia had their fingers crossed behind their backs at the time the deal was made.
Their argument is that they didn’t break the agreement.
Yeah, in 2014 Ukrainians just got rid of pro-Russian government in Ukraine what, of course, violated the agreement of peace since Russia cannot claim Ukraine peacefully anymore. This is actually “totally” logical.
We call the Russian influence on the West hybrid war, wouldn’t the Western influence in Ukraine be the same?
Same, same, but different. I agree that both these cases can be classified as influence, but, at least as I know, the influence of the West has no intention to occupy Ukraine or turn it into puppet state. The West mostly needs resources, democratic alignment and overall stability, while it has no interest in wiping out the national identity of Ukrainians and abuse them, unlike Russia. So, between 2 evils it would be better to choose the lesser one.
occupy Ukraine or turn it into puppet state
Britain got out of the EU for this reason.
abuse them
What about the posts about Amazon working conditions and US healthcare? At least Germany is approaching US conditions.
How policies of this company are related here? I agree that Amazon abuses their workers, but the workers have a freedom to leave this job. Government doesn’t force them to work there, it only participates in the creating of conditions that may force people to work there. While, as I understand, Russia is going to oppress Ukraininas on a level of government in case of successful conquering of territories. And I haven’t even mentioned the overall hate of ordinary Russians to Ukrainians.
So, as for Ukrainians, having the West model of economy versus government and social oppression from the East is not a hard choice to pick up.
While, as I understand, Russia is going to oppress Ukraininas on a level of government
What do you expect?
You dropped a /s
Just for you to know: not every person knows/uses slang/abbreviations, so that if you want other people to understand you, use standard English, please.
Either use /s or make your sarcasm clearer.
Ahh, okay. Thanks. Will know from now the meaning of /s.
Just with these kind of topics you have to be careful. Your edit makes things even clearer.
Nor should they. And they own their oil discoveries.
Never bow to bullies.
Bully the bullies back.
Well good for them. Bending knee to Putin won’t secure peace, it’ll only secure them an intermission until Putin can finish the job.
Don’t give up a single meter of land
Require reparations from Russia
Demand all children back
Demand a formal apology for the pain and suffering caused
Demand Putin in jail through the ICC
Don’t give up a single meter of land
By doing what?
A little tired of hearing this endless “well, if I were Ukraine, I would simply win the war and claim a trillion dollars in reparations and make Russia disappear off the map” Internet wish casting.
What do you do to extract any of these concessions that hasn’t already been tried? And how many more people are you willing to throw into the meat grinder trying?
Capitulating to an aggressor isn’t going to save lives.
Nobody in this thread seems interested in saving lives. It is entirely an argument over territorial control
Giving a country with a track record of violating treaties as long as Russia’s anything that lets them feel like they gained from the war in return for a treaty saying they’ll stop the war is going to cost more Ukrainian lives than continuing to fight, even to the last man. All a peace treaty like that achieves is vindicating Russia’s decision to violate the last treaty. It doesn’t stop the war, just pauses it while Russia rearms, so it can be even bloodier when it resumes than it would have been if it hadn’t paused. If Ukraine can’t make Russia lose, more Ukrainians (and more citizens of Russia’s other neighbours who are at risk of being next in line) survive if they make Russia’s victory pyrrhic so they learn that it isn’t profitable to invade their neighbours again.
Giving a country with a track record of violating treaties as long as Russia’s
Not One Inch: America, Russia, and the Making of Post–Cold War Stalemate
The title of the book, Not One Inch, refers to James Baker’s famous statement to Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would expand “not an inch” to the east.
A good book and worth a read, if you’re genuinely curious at the history leading to the current crisis.
But it’s a hard read for anyone who believes history started in 2014
What? I’m here telling you that if you want to save lives, don’t capitulate to the country killing everyone.
As any child knows, if you let a bully take your lunch money they’re just going to come back tomorrow.
I’m here telling you that if you want to save lives, don’t capitulate to the country killing everyone
That hasn’t proven out over the last 3 years. The death toll in Ukraine has significantly outrun every other Russian conflict since WW2.
As any child knows
When you think like a child, you get the results to match
“How many people are you willing to throw into the meat grinder”
Yes us lemmy posters are all high ranking Ukrainian officials. Our moral inputs into this site dictate outcomes on the battle field and our opinions hold us accomplice to the slaughter. Putin is not responsible at all; it’s the people posting on the internet!
Yes us lemmy posters are all high ranking Ukrainian officials.
101st chairborne, to be sure. Tons of folks seem to think this war is a team sport that you just cheer at from the sidelines.
When you post about Ukraine on reddit you get conservative white Americans who have bought the propaganda and think strong, proud, masculine Putin is saving Ukrainian orphans from nazis, and have a mountain of arguments why we shouldn’t fund wars overseas unless it’s Israel, Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan. Or Venezuela of course.
You post about Ukraine on Lemmy and suddenly every tankie hiding in the shadows can’t take the pressure anymore and HAVE to pile out to whinge about how unwinnable the war is, and that it’s useless to resist a tyrant and invader because something something 21st century capitalism and oil economies and nothing will even change under Putin’s rule anyway so why are we even so worked up and on and on.
I feel bad for Ukrainian people having to endure not just a hostile invasion but scorn and skepticism from the whole world because some people have such loose, soupy brains that they have invent entire straw-universes to validate the erections they get thinking Putin’s bare chest.
every tankie hiding in the shadows can’t take the pressure anymore and HAVE to pile out to whinge about how unwinnable the war is
Being a Tankie is when you don’t want to fight a war? But being a conservative is when you do want to fight a war? And they’re both on the same side?
I feel bad for Ukrainian people having to endure not just a hostile invasion but scorn and skepticism
I feel bad for anyone trapped in a warzone and treated like fodder for the war machines.
But I’ve got no pity for the cheerleaders on the sidelines eager to trade human bodies for rhetorical points.
eager to trade human bodies for rhetorical points.
There are a lot of people who have sacrificed their lives to defend their homes from invaders. A lot of people would say that’s about as noble of a goal as you can fight for and pretty fucking far from “rhetoric” when it’s a hostile army burning your homes and raping your daughters but hey, yah lets keep saying what’s best for the country and what we need to “give up” to get peace.
Don’t bother replying unless you want to keep showboating for others.
There are a lot of people who have sacrificed their lives to defend their homes from invaders.
That’s not some kind of virtue. Make the other fucker die for theirs, etc.
But once you’re dead, it’s not your land anymore. Telling tens of thousands of additional Ukrainians to die so the state can auction off a dead guy’s property to Jared Kushner’s holding company is fucked.
Don’t bother replying unless you want to keep showboating for others.
🚢
It’s not our decision to make how many people Ukraine is willing to sacrifice for their land. That’s THEIR decision.
The better question here is how many people is Russia willing to sacrifice for a war of conquest that shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
It’s our decision whether we give them billions of dollars of weapons.
Absolutely it is. We choose whether we live in a world where we defend freedom or where we appease bullies.
I guess for some people it’s an easier choice than for others.
Is that why Ukraine is over $100 billion in debt to its Western “allies”?
Putting people into debt slavery is a weird way to defend freedom…
Debt is a normal part of war, and Ukraine’s war debt is about a quarter of their peacetime GDP. Most of that has already been covered by the EU aid package last year.
Characterizing that as debt slavery is a pretty huge stretch.
At this scale those debts are a chain around their necks that can be used to control them.
As for the aid package, it merely covers half of the debt. On top of that? It’s conditional! Ukraine has to meet certain requirements to receive that aid: energy, border management, agricultural demining, and the development of a list of “strategic and essential” raw materials. Aside from demining that doesn’t sound like defending freedom, that sounds like they are trapping a client state into dependency so they can be exploited for primary production.
This has never been about freedom, I don’t know how anyone could ever believe it was.
Removed by mod
It’s not our decision to make how many people Ukraine is willing to sacrifice
It clearly is, or you wouldn’t be telling them the terms for peace.
The better question here is how many people is Russia willing to sacrifice
They’re not the ones negotiating loss of territory. You gotta quit this “Well I’m rubber and your glue” line of reasoning.
It’s Zelensky that says it, rumor has it Ukraine won’t give up land in exchange for peace
Kinda seems like Ukraine are winning the war of attrition to me.
There is no scenario in which Russia gives up control of Crimea. It is simply too strategically important.
What about the scenario that they collapse within due to no economy? That’d lose crimea for them quickly.
Is there any serious analysis that anticipates that? I mean, a flurry of meteor strikes could also do it, I suppose.
Yes. Their oil production is way down due to the destruction of a lot of their refineries so fuel supplies are running low. They are also unable to produce enough amination for their tanks. So their tanks won’t go and can’t fire, hard to call that winning.
They lost a few percentage points of total refining capacity.
The strikes Ukraine made did disrupt a large percentage of the refineries, that’s true. But the strikes didn’t do a lot of damage and the refineries were brought back onine shortly.
The total annual production of those refineries was affected. But only something like 3% - 6%.
This week there are reports, plus lots of corroborating videos showing orcs running into battle without helmets or armor. They don’t seem to be doing great.
And yet Ukraine can’t seem to defend against them? Russian territory gains have been accelerating over the last 4 weeks. Pretty bad situation if Ukraine can’t defend against unarmored and unarmed soldiers
People have been saying this since week 2 of the war lmao
too much gas/oil that russia desperately needs.
I know this is mostly a fantasy by now, but in actual reality, Russia obviously needs to give Crimea back to Ukraine and then continue minding its own fucking business.
ContinueStart
Has Russia in its various incarnations, ever minded its own business? They’ve been a pain basically since their inception. Mostly because they seem to have predilection for some variation of oppressing their own people and then using those oppressed people to oppress more people.
There was about a 15-year window when they had a democracy and that’s been it.
There was about a 15-year window when they had a democracy
Are you talking about the 90s and early 2000s, when Russia experienced a drop in life expectancy on par with WWII? When foreign capital pillaged the country with the explicit purpose of making an example of them?
Here’s a link to The Shock Doctrine: Rise of Disaster Capitalism. It helps explain how things got bad enough that Vladimir fucking Putin seems like the lesser evil to the people who lived through it.
Really? So the invasions by Napoleon, by the WW1 victors, and by the Third Reich were all just Russia being a pain?
whos going to make them? until europe invades, im sorry but you kinda have to hope the us does something
Yeah, that’s the fantasy part.
doh, my b missed that word
You don’t reward a thief and murderer, you shoot them between the eyes. As a Dutchman, I wholeheartedly support shooting every uniformed Russian or allied you can find. Twice.
This sort of thinking is what the elites want…
If you apply your hate about the Russian invasion to all people of Russia, you make the job easier for Russian government to spread hate against others even more.
If people of countries would not hate each other, but only people responsible for war, there would simply be no war.
War only works by propaganda, without hate and fear mongering, there would be no wars.
In all fairness, I think kost Russian soldiers aren’t there by much choice, Putin loves his meat grinder and has pulled well over a million Russians through it.
Yes, that is a problem that Russians should fix themselves, but still. Any soldiers surrendering should be treated well. Show them they’ve really been figuring on the wrong side
They do have a choice. When Russian frontline collapses in WWI, they started to make revolution in the Russia. Soldiers have all the guns, they have a choice, but they don’t use it or care to use it.
It is hard to revolt against a fascist state…
Alone, you have no change
There are horrible examples made with individuals who try
Organisation is made very hard and punishment is inhumane
People just want to live their lives, and if risks for revolution is so damn high, they can not afford to do it
It worked with the Nazis, it works with Russia and it will work with MAGA
If we don’t have strong protections against fascist takeover, they will do it and will block all counter movements while they are small
That is why they try to make antifa illegal, because active fighting against fascism is always needed, because the danger of a fascist group taking over is always ther
And fascism does not mean against jews, it means usage of power to suppress those with less power. It means slavering with extra steps.
That’s not what I was saying. Russian people have been made revolution before, which started from the soldiers tired of the war. I didn’t speak of the US military or people.
Most of the soldiers getting sent into the meat grinder are ethnic minorities from poor regions of Russia. They’re people that European Russians don’t care about.
putin is less likely to send muscovites or st.petersberg russians(aka white russians) thats where his influence is, if he starts to send those people, the people are going to riot.
You don’t reward a thief and murderer
We literally do and we do it regularly.
At this point, telling Russia to give the land back might as well be a land acknowledgement you read in between demanding Florida to back to the Cherokee and telling the Normans to leave England.
I wholeheartedly support shooting every uniformen Russian or allied you can find.
Well, quit wasting your time. Get down to Ukraine and win the war, then.
If they give up land now, it gives Pootin permission to do it again and take even more land. Eventually they’ll take all of the Ukraine.
Also, remember when dumpy mcshitpants said he’d have both wars over in the first 24 hours of office? how long has it been now?
That’s exactly how they ended up in a situation. Putin took Crimea with basically no resistance. He just didn’t count on Zelensky. Most other leaders would have given in to the pressure and let Putin overrun Ukraine (for a nice golden parachute).
Yeah, historically Ukrainian corruption while not as bad as in Russia was just as pervasive and Putin didn’t really think Zelensky or any Ukrainian leadership would act on principles. Of course, it’s an easy mistake to make when you have no principles and surround yourself with people who have no principles.
I don’t know how much it would encourage Putin to invade again.
It’s not like he invaded part of Ukraine and was allowed to keep the annexed territory in the name of peace, then 8 years later invaded again, right?
Even if they were to not invade Ukraine again, Putin has been using war to distract the population from domestic problems, so he’d just pick another target after Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, Africa, and Ukraine.
That same orange shit stain is days away from de facto declaring war on Venezuela. Disgusting.
If anything, Russia should give up land to Ukraine!
Give back*!
Good! Fuck Russia! Fuck Putin! Fuck Trump!
And nor should they, never give in to bullies.
Russia’s showing signs of desperation anyhow which is why they’re trying to push through an agreement. They can’t debase the currency much further, they don’t have the reserves or the GDP. Ukraine is in more the position strength here as they’ve spend their time building alliances which has been aided by Russian actions strengthening the resolve of Europeans.
so many of thier fuel stations are hit, its going to start affecting his 2 base of influence, moscow and st.pete, the last thing he wants is those people in the cities complaining,.
US here, and I wish we were one of those allies. You know, as we promised.
- In 1994, the United States, Russia, and Ukraine signed the Trilateral Statement, under which Ukraine committed to eliminate all nuclear weapons on its territory and join the NPT, in exchange for economic support and security assurances from the United States and Russia.
Yeah, would have been nice if the word (signature in fact!) of us government had meant anything (we knew russia never lives up to it)
Unfortunately, this is just a stark lesson for any other country out there. Do not give up your nuclear weapons no matter what “guarantees” you get.
and security assurances from the United States and Russia.
The US pressured Ukraine to accept assurances and not guarantees. It matters which kind of guarantees are given.
Isnt the lesson “develop nukes now”?
We knew Russia wouldn’t. I’m just sad that we aren’t holding up our end of the bargain. I suspect we’d have support from other nations.
Sounds like the EU needs a nuclear weapon program. At least one warhead in every EU nation, and at least 10 in every bordering Russia.
And also an autonomous weapon program. Like Project Manhatthan, but for Skynet.
Ah yes, but with Trump bending over backwards to accommodate Putin the Russians needn’t worry.
plus putin is also shoring up far-right european govt in the EU too.
If they really felt desperate, wouldn’t they show just a bit more flexibility in their demands?
The will if they need to. Putin is much better at playing the game than the US under the orange moron.
If Putin shows weakness, Russian’s might start thinking he’ll give in to their demands.
