I like these laws but also I want to smoke in some places. I’d love a return of places like cigar lounges and whisky bars
I thought everyone in France smoked, including the kids, no?
In cliché world yeah… But in reality, not so much. 😀
It been years… no… decades that smoking have nearly disappeared around me - including in the office.
I work with hundreds of people and the amount of people smoking can fit one hand. 25 years ago, i needed more than 2 hands to count them. And in my family, nobody starting at my parents generation and younger smokes.
Same story with wine during lunch. 25 years ago, it was several bottles each day at lunches.
Today, no more wine bottle and the trend started since easily 15 years now. Only for big occasion and the quantity have decreased a lot.
People drink more beers now. But far less than wine.
I gave mine nicotine patch from age 5.
all the more reason. what’s the point of banning something if no one’s doing it
LOL like here in Montreal I see people smoking right next to the “No smoking within 3 meters” or whatever sign.
“To protect children” is a stupid reason, but banning smoking anywhere outside of your own home, or spaces expressly dedicated to it, on the other hand, is how it should always have been.
Replace “children” with “non-consenting people” and you’re getting close. Children are the most non-consenting people in society and deserve special protection accordingly.
There is an absolute metric shitload of proven scientific evidence that smoke inhalation causes lasting damage to developing lungs and hearts. Do you deny this scientific evidence?
I took it to mean that we should protect everything and everybody, not just the children. I could be wrong in my interpretation.
Smoking should be banned. Full stop. When my neighbours smoke I can’t even open my window, I have asthma. The smell attaches to the walls. There is also my kitchen where I cook and I can’t enjoy my little place outside because it constantly smells cigarette because they smoke regulary.
I’m from the UK where it’s at least banned indoors.
Visiting European pubs/bars where people still smoke is nuts and my clothes always stink after
The same ban exists in France and most other EU countries. And the fines/administrative closures are quite stringent.
Yeah, went to Spain, and woke up with a sore throat and really smelly clothes. Took me back to before the ban and realised how good that was for everyone
I don’t know where you went, but since 2011 it’s been illegal to smoke indoors in Spain. It’s still legal to smoke on outdoor seating in bars/restaurants, but fortunately that’s going to be made illegal as well.
It was illegal but not enforced at all or followed by the locals, so not followed by anybody else either. During the day was fine but in the evening and night it was like there was no law
Let me guess, Mallorca? I’m guessing the tourist places are more lax in that aspect, because there is no way you can smoke inside where I live, the pubs can get a very big fine if you do.
I was in Vegas a couple weeks back. Same problem.
I’d argue the less prevalent smoking is in public the less likely children will turn to smoking in the future. makes sense to me
“To protect children” is a stupid reason
Just depends on what sells the legislation. People can be very entitled but they might bend if it’s to “protect the children”
It works in this case. I believe developing lungs are more susceptible to damage plus children have more life ahead of them to live with damaged lungs. Most importantly we want them to have the opportunity to live without the lung damage we already have.
And of course the practical reason is they already can’t smoke. You’re not taking anything away from them
You could say smoking is one of the most human activities ever. Does nothing but actively harm and potentially kill everything around you. Just what we’re the best at.
But seriously now. Can we speed up smoking bans? Like, everywhere?
Yeah prohibition is famous for working very well and not have any side effect.
But seriously now. Can we speed up smoking bans? Like, everywhere?
Some European countries, including mine, has decided to raise the smoking age by 1 every year, essentially banning the next generation from smoking. Not really rapid or speeding up, but future is looking good
There was a slight problem where some people were allowed to smoke for portion of the year after birthday and before the age increase, for every year
Anything but prevent phillip morris from selling their shit huh?
That I can’t get on board with personally. Everyone has a vice.
Imagine doing that with cannabis or drinking. Probably wouldn’t get near the support even though those are also vices.
Second hand drinking isn’t really a thing and I don’t see people smoking weed publicly all the time to the point it’s disgusting to eat at cafe, at least never noticed it, so most don’t really care.
It’s irrelevant. You’re telling people what they can and cannot do based on when they were born.
It’d be one thing if no one could smoke. But youre not saying that. You’re strictly saying because you were born after x date that you can never smoke.
That’s entirely messed up and my point being it’s terribly against personal freedom.
And you basically proved my point- people will make allowances for other vices but not this.
Note that I was telling what the government does, not what is my opinion on this.
If I was steering the wheel, I’d just ban all drug consumption in public spaces, but allow non-destructive ones in personal spaces (your property), which includes tobacco and weed. I’d probably also limit the alcohol limit in drinks to something like 11%, so no absolut vodkas or smirnoffs as those tends to cause serious brain damage, which in return affects everyone around who have to deal with your vegetable state even when sober
Disclaimer: I’m from east europe and alcohol consumption is kinda out of control for most people (yes, most people according to my experience)
What country is it? I always wanted this for mine.
To protect children, meanwhile the soil is filled with cancer-inducing products pumped away illegally by big chemistry plants. In belgium and netherlands we can barely eat our own produce thanks to this. When are we gonna ban them??
GOOD point. They shouldn’t ban cigarettes until everything else bad is also banned.
But they shouldn’t ban anything else bad unless everything bad is banned. Fuck we can’t ban shit
They shouldn’t ban cigarettes.
They should ban phillip morris and co who manifacture even more harmful tabacco to turn everybody into an addict.
There’s always one. Always fucking one.
yeah also ban those… how does all that affect this exactly?
Ban children!?
I love how everyone supporting this just assumes you’ll still be able to smoke at your own home when it doesn’t saying anything of the sort. It explicitly states ‘where children COULD be present’. This is literally everywhere short of some BDSM dungeon. This is basically going to make the population choose between smoking and having kids.
Which actually sounds fair. Kids do not choose to be born and do not need to inhale smoke because parents are addicted to smoking
Giving people the expectation of clean air and fresh water is far too liberal of a concept these days.
It’s always cleaner if not one is smoking around you 😅
This is basically going to make the population choose between smoking and having kids.
Hell I’d start smoking again.
Yeah don’t smoke near your kids. It’s not that hard.
They’re also making the population choose between drinking and driving.
No they’re not. Do they outlaw drinking everywhere children might one day walk through.
Yes they do wtf. Dont drink and drive.
Do you often spill drinks into the mouths of passerby’s?
The issue isn’t the substance, it’s the second hand smoke. Children are smart enough to know “this is a thing my parents do that I can’t” but no level of smart can keep the air they breath from containing smoke.
Mind your ankles. The slopes around here are slippery.
Well No, those laws usually only apply to Public areas, so as to Not Hurt your right of doing jackshit in your Home. At least the cannabis law in Germany has been designed Like it (but alas, cannabis is Not as much detrimental to the health of people around one as Smoking is).
Whether its actually enforced or not will be the question. I went to Disneyland Paris 7 years ago, there were signs everywhere saying smoke only in designated areas but there were people smoking all over and none of the staff seemed to care.
This comment section is a disaster, just as bad as reddit. Comments of no substance on the side of popular opinion get upvotes, and waves of downvotes come for anyone who disagrees even a little, and even if they do it in a reasonable way.
I’m mildly asthmatic so I don’t smoke, vape, etc. I have tried a few times and it is simply too much for my lungs to cope with. I still think banning people from smoking in public parks or on beaches is a bit much, and not doing the same with vaping seems like a strange double standard. I had a college roommate who both vaped and smoked, and the vaping bothered me more. I still put up with it.
Hopefully enforcement is reasonable - respectful smokers who deliberately try to keep their distance should be allowed to enjoy themselves, but I understand prosecuting(?) those who show no care and smoke right next to nonsmokers.
The issue with smoking is the second hand smoke. It causes cancer, among many other health issues. Vape on the other hand doesn’t really have this same concern.
They aren’t banning smoking because of nicotine, they are banning it because it causes cancer.
Yes, secondhand smoke is bad. But we are talking about outdoor environments where it should usually be possible for smokers to keep their distance.
As for vaping, it hasn’t really been around long enough yet to know for sure what the health risks are regarding the secondhand aerosol exposure, but there is reason to be concerned. It is almost certainly not as bad as secondhand smoke, but there are still risks.
While I agree, these laws aren’t being made because smokers keep accidentally smoking near others, it’s because a large number of smokers can’t be assed to keep their distance. The major place I notice smokers is when they are just meandering through a large crowd as if everyone around them is fine with the smoke.
I get that, but shouldn’t it be possible then to target that kind of behavior specifically rather than all smoking? Rather than banning smoking on x beach or in y park, they could ban smoking within x meters of a minor or non consenting adult. It would be more complicated but also more fair.
Ultimately I don’t know what all of the problems with that approach would be, but it would make more sense to me.
Comments of no substance on the side of popular opinion get upvotes, and waves of downvotes come for anyone who disagrees even a little, and even if they do it in a reasonable way.
Lemmy seems much worse for this than reddit TBH.
There’s a number of topics about which any dissent is met with vehement derision. As in those engaging in wrong think are assholes.
I don’t really know of course but I suspect it’s because lemmy has a narrower demographic than reddit. Opinions are just generally more homogeneous. I guess I’m describing an echo chamber.
There’s one section of benches on my town common that smells like cigarettes from all the way over on the sidewalk. Even if it’s empty. There are so many smokers that the stink won’t go away even though it’s outside. Why do they get to ruin that section of park for everyone else?
We have this one park with a small beach section. They try to rope off a s,all smoking section away from everyone else, but you can still smell it. Why do they get to ruin the public beach for everyone else?
Sometimes other people do things we dislike, c’est la vie.
You just need to find the right community preferably where there are no bots, trolls
Good!
If you can’t smoke outdoors and you can’t smoke indoors, where can you smoke?
In designated smoking spots and in your own home. I’d extend it to vapers. If I can smell the shit you blow out your lungs then it’s very probable it’s in my lungs. Didn’t sign up for that. Personal freedom reaches up to the point where you infringe on the freedom of others (in this care my freedom to not have to breathe your smoke)
There are a lot of smells that you are expected to deal with, it seems like kind of a reach. I consider most parfums thoroughly unpleasant but I dont expect it to be made illegal.
That being said, I’m okay with this because of the littering aspect.
The smell of perfume doesn’t cause cancer. Second-hand smoke is proven to do so.
I wouldn’t be so sure that my formaldhyde perfume isn’t carcinogenic, and that hasn’t been banned anywhere.
You must have a hard time being anywhere close to a car if you think you are getting cancer because of a 2 second wiff from some guys cig on a beach. Seems like exaggeration, cancer isnt some lightning bolt that hits you the moment you get a hint of something bad near you.
Air and particulate pollution from cars is actually a pretty significant factor in respiratory health.
cancer isnt some lightning bolt that hits you the moment you get a hint of something bad near you.
You’re correct, it isn’t a lightning bolt. This goes against your statement, not with it. It’s an accumulation of increased risk, and eventually it just happens (or doesn’t). The more things that increase your risk the higher the odds. You don’t just get cancer because someone smoked near you. You have an increased risk of cancer based on how much you’ve been around your entire life, and everything else that contributes. Reducing risk means reducing as many contributors as possible.
You must have a hard time being anywhere close to a car if you think you are getting cancer because of a 2 second wiff from some guys cig on a beach.
One thing is bad, so we can’t do anything about another thing? “People are being killed by cars, but we can’t work to reduce that because people are dying from heart disease!” How silly.
The impact from those few odd times someone is smoking near you in an open areas is not proportional to the risk you are attributing to it imo. I am bringing up cars to highlight that.
Cars don’t make me choke, but good point! I’d ban them from the cities as well.
Let’s ban cars too
I can get behind this.
Yes, we need to ban cars as well, pretty much all internal combustion. Unfortunately there are technical reasons that will take a while, but we’re making progress. Even worse my country has turned it political with regressives gleefully trying to turn back what progress we’ve made
Oh FFS, yeah, cancer for people living in the same house. Getting a whiff of cigarette smoke isn’t doing jack shit to you.
True, but at least vaping isn’t going to hurt you like secondhand smoke, and vapers don’t throw butts on the ground.
Lots of waste from single use vapes.
mostly because they don’t extract the lithium ion cells
There have been studies that show vaping to be just as dangerous, if not more so that “traditional cigarettes”
False
Really? The only negative effects I’ve heard of were the “popcorn lung” from unsafe additives and obviously too much nicotine. Do you have a link?
Evali was ONE event that happened because they used E vitamin as base instead of PG. It’s coco oil iirc and it just keep bubbling up like soap.
But what about “seconhand smoke”, if I may call it that?
Seconhand smoke from vaping is also dangerous:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4565991/ https://www.healthline.com/health/second-hand-vape#effects
TL;DR: Mainly it’s nicotine exposure, but vape smoke has been found to also contain lead, formaldehyde, & toluene.
That’s not what that study says.
In your own home thats not around anyone else? Nobody wants to breath in your cancer smoke except retards.
I don’t smoke, but I also don’t want to live in a world where you can’t.
I want to live in a world where people don’t force their vices on bystanders. I don’t give a shit what you do to yourself but it matters who you do it in front of. (Smoking in a house with children should be a crime)
Everyone forces their vice on bystanders in some capacity. I consider censorship and Puritanism to be a vice that is forced in nearly every aspect of society. It’s moral fetishism.
Between the two, I’d rather see someone smoke a cigarette than be judgmental towards others.
Judginess doesn’t cause asthma attacks.
They’re free to smoke when and where they’re not harming anyone.
Like outside more than 10 feet from a doorway? Surely 10 feet is enough to change your walking path and save yourself from a waft.
If you’re a smoker you may be surprised at the distance your smoke impacts other people. The smell, the cloud, The ash extends far beyond a mere ten feet. Where I live the law is 20 feet from an entrance and that’s just not enough.
The problem is you can’t change your path from an entrance because you may have to enter and exit. The problem is further that multiple smokers tend to congregate at the mandated distance so the smoke is much worse. It needs to be significantly farther.
But then it’s worse again in a city area, where the sidewalks are also a bottleneck. I can’t always cross the street to avoid smokers but frequently have to pass right next to them. And I’d like to point out they are the ones inflicting their vice/addiction on others. It should not be my responsibility to get out of the way of their bad habit when their reasonable accommodation would not inflict it on others
My point is that it is within the realm of normal annoyances from other people and there should be a reasonable expectation of both politeness from the smoker and tolerance from others. A strong perfume, a fart, body odor, spicy food, and many other gasses can be encountered at any point from a similar distance, but nobody suggests punishing people for those.
I find the desire to over legislate things due to personal preferences about how other people behave is a bigger and more annoying vice than smoking.
Anywhere where it doesn’t bother other people.
I enjoy spreading my ass cheeks and feeling the sun on my anus. It really takes the edge off, ya know what I mean? If I can’t do it in the park or the school playground, where the fuck can I get my sunnies?
School playground might be a bit much, but I unironically support your right to sun your anus in the park. We all have them, we shouldn’t be ashamed.
Exactly. Those damn kids don’t deserve to be protected. Little shitters
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Guess it’s time to quit. :)
I don’t smoke.
This just in, vaporizer sales spike in France.
Also in the news, French citizens are vaping in restricted areas regardless of regulations.
I live in a country with a strict outdoor smoking ban and I love it.
There are dedicated smoking areas for people to smoke outdoors, but they are really small and cramped with smokers.
It’s actually really nice, you never see or smell people smoking unless you wonder too close to the designated smoking areas which are often really out of the way.
The streets are not really clean here, but at least it’s not cigarette butts. Even things like vapes need to be smoked in a designated area, but sometimes people do it on the street anyway.
Nice. I think our only real outdoor restriction is “within 20’ of an entrance”. But it’s not enough.
That reminds me I need to complain to one of my favorite restaurants. They have an ash tray outside so people are less likely to litter and it is more than 20’ from the entrance. However it’s too close. When the patio is open, the smokers are just across the sidewalk and it ruins the meal
Dang, France is really about to take away the one thing that the USA has always been ahead of them on.
Good i hope more countries adopt this. Türkiye is terrible for this, lovely country and people but there are smokers almost everywhere.
Banning children seems like it would be more effective.
