Everybody knows about the backstory, there was a civil war, KMT fled to Taiwan creating two Chinas sort of, maybe, neither recognises the other, whole thing. ROC (Taiwan) ended up transitioning from military rule to a multi-party democracy, while the PRC (mainland China) didn’t do that (they did reform economically, “socialism with Chinese characteristics” and all that, but still a one-party state, not a multi-party democracy). The status quo right now is that Taiwan is in the grey area of statehood where they function pretty much independently but aren’t properly recognised, and both sides of the strait are feeling pretty tense right now.
Taiwan’s stance on the issue is that they would like to remain politically and economically independent of mainland China, retaining their multi-party democracy, political connections to its allies, economic trade connections, etc. Also, a majority of the people in Taiwan do not support reunification with China.
China’s stance on the issue is that Taiwan should be reunified with the mainland at all costs, ideally peacefully, but war is not ruled out. They argue that Taiwan was unfairly separated from the mainland by imperial powers in their “century of humiliation”. Strategically, taking Taiwan would be beneficial to China as they would have better control of the sea.
Is it even possible for both sides to agree to a peaceful solution? Personally, I can only see two ways this could go about that has the consent of both parties. One, a reformist leader takes power in the mainland and gives up on Taiwan, and the two exist as separate independent nations. Or two, the mainland gets a super-reformist leader that transitions the mainland to a multi-party democracy, and maybe then reunification could be on the table, with Taiwan keeping an autonomous status given the large cultural difference (similar to Hong Kong or Macau’s current status). Both options are, unfortunately, very unlikely to occur in the near future.
A third option (?) would be a pseudo-unification, where Taiwan becomes a recognised country, but there can be free movement of people between the mainland and Taiwan, free trade, that sort of stuff (sort of like the EU? Maybe?). Not sure if the PRC would accept that.
What are your thoughts on a peaceful solution to the crisis that both sides could agree on?
edit: Damn there are crazies in both ends of the arguments. I really don’t think giving Taiwan nukes would help solve the problem.
I think the current best solution, looking at the more reasonable and realistic comments, seems to be to maintain the status quo, at least until both sides of the strait are able to come into some sort of agreement (which seems to be worlds away right now given their current very opposing stances on the issue)
Let’s cut the bullshit: a lot of what’s being said here is just garden-variety racism dressed up as “concern for democracy.” The way some of you talk about mainland Chinese people(like we’re brainwashed bugs, NPCs, or extensions of the state) is dehumanizing. Full stop. You don’t speak this way about Americans living under mass surveillance, police violence, and corporate rule. You don’t speak this way about Europeans crushed by austerity. Somehow it’s only Chinese people who get stripped of agency.
IWe’re not a hive mind. We argue, complain, adapt, survive, organize families, build lives, same as anyone else. Reducing 1.4 billion people to propaganda victims just so you can feel morally superior is chauvinism. You can criticize the Chinese government without pretending the population is subhuman or that fuck x is legitimate criticism.
And this Hong Kong nostalgia is especially grotesque. You’re romanticizing a British colony run explicitly for banks and property tycoons. No elections for governors. Workers packed into coffin apartments. People waiting decades for public housing. Extreme inequality baked into law. But because it flew a Union Jack and spoke English, suddenly it becomes a paradise of “freedom”? That tells me everything about whose suffering you care about.
You also keep pretending Taiwan exists in some magical vacuum. It doesn’t. It’s the unresolved end of a civil war, frozen in place by US military power, and now functions as an unsinkable aircraft carrier pointed at the Chinese coast. Any major power on Earth would see that as an existential threat. The US would lose its mind if China parked missiles off California. But when China objects, suddenly it’s “authoritarian aggression.” (who remembers the Cuban missile crisis)
If you actually care about peace, stop parroting racist bullshit narratives. Stop flattening Chinese people into stereotypes. Stop acting like Western militarization of East Asia is neutral or benevolent. You don’t have to like the CPC. But if your worldview starts from “Chinese people are brainwashed and inferior,” even if you phrase it with better pr you’re a racist.
I don’t think I said anything about the brainwashing of Chinese people, nor did I romanticise British Hong Kong. I used to live in Hong Kong (post-British) and everything seemed alright, food was good and people were good. I did mention that Taiwan was a result of the KMT fleeing after the civil war, and fair enough, it only remained due to the U.S. fleet being in the waters, and having missiles pointed at you at all times is not nice at all.
edit: It was not directed at me, rather at the comments (in that case I can see how you feel)
Sorry if I phrased it badly, English isn’t my first language, this comment is more an open comment to the comment section where people are saying things like this and talking about Chinese meat waves and meat grinders and the like. I wasn’t trying to attack you.
That’s fair enough. Internet people can be truly horrible. No harm done!
When does saying that “Taiwan should have the right to self-determination” require making any xenophobic or racist claims about Chinese people?
You tell me. Why do so many feel the need to use the Chinese civil war split to push racism, xenophobia and chauvinism against the Chinese? Saying Taiwan should be independent isn’t what I’m taking issue with even if I disagree with that statement personally. It’s the racism that you(general you not you specifically) accompany it with.
I don’t know. Am I doing that when I say that Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?
What they actually want, according to polls, is to maintain the status quo.
And you’d be foolish to think China’s rhetoric and threats doesn’t impact how people vote on that. In any case, “Reunification” is very much the least favourite choice from all of them.
And Taiwan is already a de facto independent state.
Ok, then the did you determine what the people of Taiwan actually want? White man mind reading?
I’ve said it all over this thread what I suspect the majority want to do. You’ve seen my answers on this repeatedly if you’re reading this thread.
So based on noting except chauvanism
Well, fortunately I have Westerners to tell me what the Taiwanese people want so I don’t have to worry about what they actually say.
Right, which is why throwing the situation into chaos to force a non-issue is completely absurd.
I can literally read their polling on this and in a binary choice between official independence and “reunification”, the former wins out.
I didn’t say anything should change. Just that they do not want to be incorporated into China.
Reducing it to a binary choice is the very definition of a false dichotomy.
That’s not what you said. What you actually said was “Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?” That sounds a lot like calling for formal independence, not the status quo.
No? I would question it being what they want as a whole I’m not sure it’s that clear an issue. But if that’s all you said then my comment obviously doesn’t apply to you. ???
I’m not saying it’s a big issue, but status-quo or status-quo with a view to independence (combined constitute a majority of polling on the matter) very much indicate wanting to maintain independence de facto - combined with a majority of pro-Taiwan identity in polling.
“Reunification” scores very badly.
好啊，统一中国？没问题。。。
中华民国万岁！民主万岁！
消灭中共，光复中华！
😏
Your Chinese is ok, but I’m here to practice English.
And I have to ask, do you actually believe this? Because this is an evil position.
If the CPC collapses, we already know what happens. It’s been proven before. Economic shock, mass unemployment, pensions wiped out, public assets sold off, and ordinary people paying the price while foreign interests move in. Just like they did to the USSR.
You’re basically cheering for over a billion people to be pushed into chaos and poverty. That’s a horrifying thing to advocate.
And honestly, I’m asking partly because too many Chinese Americans do hold views like this from the safety of the US, sometimes in hopes of fitting in. Rooting for suffering back home to score points is cynical and cruel.
only thing they are hoping is the surveillance state collapses, and an actual people’s republic can be built in its place, and they can consider to return. but of course you can’t avoid painting the “traitor” in the worst light.
Nobody is racist. people are just fed up with the mindset of the kind of chinese citizen that is not only angrily parroting chinese political propaganda, but who even want other parts of the world to become like that, because they feel superior. and you know full well I’m not talking about communism here.
You’re very hateful for a third party. The collapse of the PRC that they seemingly “jokingly” called for would be devastating we’ve seen what happened to the USSR already. When did I call them a traitor that’s you putting words in my mouth. And to be able to look through this comment section and say there is no racism against Chinese people is genuinely astounding. Maybe it’s because you agree with the racists.
if the USSR didn’t fell, life would be very different where I live. by the looks of it, not better, that’s definite
If the USSR didn’t fall hundreds of thousands of women and children would have been saved from being pushed into prostitution and trafficking, millions would have avoid being plunged into morbid poverty, life expectancy wouldn’t have fallen by nearly 10 years due to the brutal conditions of capitalist shock therapy, there would be no war in Ukraine killing the sons of Russia and Ukraine by the thousand, the socialist block would still be together and would have enough strength that militant resistance against the omnicidal American empire would be more than just a pleasant thought for the future.
I think they’re clearly baiting you rather than seriously calling for the PRC to collapse.
That’s not better
I think it’s about on par with people calling for the destruction of the USA.
Check his profile and posting history, he’s serious.
I’ve seen them around before, but I don’t think any Taiwanese person or any person of Taiwanese descent truly believes it’s possible to actually somehow destroy the PRC and replace it with the ROC. It’s just cathartism.
He was born in the PRC, not ROC. This is listed right on his profile. Believe it or not, people who emigrate from socialist countries often have extremely right-wing views.
Real “the south will rise again!” energy here. The KMT was kicked out of the mainland precisely because the people of China supported the CPC, which is why today over 90% of Chinese citizens support their government. The mainland would be devastated by the collapse of socialism, with over 1 billion people being thrown into poverty. The White Terror wasn’t exactly “democratic,” when the KMT took over Taiwan and slaughtered thousands that resisted the new dictatorship.
This thread is wild. All these “freedom and democracy” lovers apparently don’t know anything about China or Taiwan. Give Taiwan nukes? Insanity.
I’ve definitely seen this type of rhetoric being directed at Americans more and more as our current president continues to fuck up everything.
Maybe, but it’s nowhere near the same scale or normalization. Say something positive about China(from infrastructure to poverty reduction)and it’s instantly “propaganda,” “brainwashed,” “you can’t trust anything from there.” Americans don’t get treated that way as a people. US media is taken as baseline reality despite massive corporate and state influence, while Chinese society unfortunately often gets dismissed wholesale as incapable of independent thought.
Hello friend, you seem to reasonable. Here’s a viewpoint from a Taiwanese. You will never see me say anything positive about China because you are an existential threat to our way of life. As individuals you all may be perfectly nice and lovely but as the bully next door we want nothing to do with you.
Out of curiosity, what specifically do you think would change in your daily life if Taiwan reintegrated and stopped functioning as a forward U.S. military platform? Concrete impacts like jobs, housing, healthcare, travel, civil rights as opposed to general terms like “freedom” that don’t really say much on their own would be preferred.
I would not be able to vote for my own leaders and representatives. Everything else (housing, healthcare, etc) can be fixed but once that is taken away we will have nothing.
Edit: I don’t agree that Taiwan is a vassal state or forward operating base for the Americans. Look at the US presence in Japan and Korea - if the Americans really viewed Taiwan (or if Taiwan viewed themselves being American lackeys) as being that important they would have sold us F-15s or other advanced weaponry like they did to Japan years ago and had actual bases here. I wish Taiwanese in general would show lesser favoritism to the Americans as a cultural and human rights sort of thing but when you have no real international relations you do what you must I suppose.
You do know the mainland does have voting, elections, and democracy right? It just operates differently from the vote every 3-6 years model. Representatives to local people’s congresses are directly elected, those bodies feed upward through provincial and national levels, and major legislation goes through consultation and revision processes before adoption. Participation is an ongoing process rather than a single national vote every few years. In my view, that is more substantive than simply choosing between parties every 3–6 years and then having limited influence afterward. There’s a reason long-running surveys (including work out of Harvard) have reported trust in the central government at over 90%. That level of confidence suggests many mainland citizens feel like me in that the system works well to represent us and our needs.
On the strategic question, Taiwan’s role is not defined by whether there are large permanent U.S. bases on the island. It sits at the center of what U.S. defense planners call the First Island Chain, a containment architecture stretching through Japan, Okinawa, Taiwan, and the Philippines. Because of its geography alone, Taiwan functions as a critical strategic node. The United States does not need to station F-15s there for the island to serve as a pressure point, intelligence platform, and potential staging area in a conflict scenario. Arms sales, training cooperation, and naval deployments in the surrounding waters reflect that structural reality. Whether one calls it a “forward base” or not, Taiwan occupies a central place in U.S. regional military planning. Americans call the island the unsinkable aircraft carrier for a reason.
I really don’t care if everyone in China has a government issued unicorn that farts rainbows and shits soft serve ice cream. We want nothing to do with you. Leave us alone. Why is this so fucking hard for you people to understand?
That’s very hostile for no reason.
I like how you claim to me in a separate comment that you’re just a smol neutral and don’t really care if Taiwan unifies or not, but are now lecturing an actual Taiwanese person who told you that they do not want to be part of the PRC that actually, they should and the PRC is wonderful.
Such chauvinism.
I think you are illiterate. I have commented with you a few times and you seem incapable of grasping basic premises. I don’t care if Taiwan reunifies I was just curious why he holds the belief he does. He provided a reason that I’m my view starts from a flawed premise so I explained my thoughts on that. None of this was lecturing or chauvinism. Please learn what words mean and figure out how to grasp through lines before you talk to me further so we can have meaningful discussions as opposed to you just arguing in circles about bullshit you made up in your mind.
As a Chinese American that was born in China and almost got terminated by the One Child Policy, I want to let you know I stand with democracy.
台湾加油，抵抗中共！✊
🤝🤝🤝
To be clear, the stereotype of the dumb American is at least true since at least the Iraq War.
It’d be pretty funny if China gave Cuba missiles.
But they’re afraid to even give them oil to avert a US-imposed famine, so its unlikely we’re gonna see China do something cool.
Btw, mander.xyz isn’t blocked in mainland China like .ml
There is food aid and China built their solar infrastructure so they’re not leaving them out to die. I think it’s a complicated situation for China as the US has shown how crazy it can be and China enterting a hot war with them would be undesirable for the entire world to say the least.
I use a VPN anyway so it’s not really an issue I’m here to practice my English mostly while interacting with interesting people.