i think that if more people were exposed to advanced math there would be a reactionary trend of people going around and asking mathematicians “what is a number?”
sort of like the reactionary trend of pulling your kids out of school because Common Core has changed how math is taught so critical thinking and conceptual understanding is incorporated, rather than teaching math by rote memorization?
Can confirm. I was already struggling. But I just straight up refused to math with i
There is a slight difference though in that complex numbers are a part of math but gender isn’t really a part of biology.
Also the mathematicians wouldn’t decline to give an answer.
Also the mathematicians wouldn’t decline to give an answer.
Are you sure? I only minored in math, but even I would struggle to provide an answer to this. It would have to be something incredibly vague, like “a number is a mathematical object that has certain consistent properties relevant to the field of study.” Because otherwise you get situations like “is infinity a number?” and you can’t answer categorically, because usually it’s not, but then you look at the transfinite numbers where you can indeed have omega-plus-one as a number. And someone asks if you can have an infinite number of digits to the left of the decimal place, and you say “well, not in the reals, but there are the P-adic numbers…” and folks ask if you can have an infinitely small number and you say “well, in the reals you can only have an arbitrarily small number, but in game theory there are the surreal numbers, where…”
So yeah, I’m not sure “what is a number” is even a math question. It’s more a philosophy question, or sometimes a cognitive science question (like Lakoff and Nuñez’s “Where Mathematics Comes From”).
Ehh not really its just to old if a concept for us to be appaled by that. Its not 15 century for imaginary numbers to cause riots.
Do the two tails left of M and right of F mean there are males more male than cis males, and similarly with females?
The peaks do not designate “cis”, you can be cis and fall anywhere on the chart - being cis is about the sex you were arbitrarily assigned at birth (and whether that assignment aligns or conflicts with your actual gender identity).
And when doctors change assignments, it’s really unclear whether you’re cis or not if you transition - e.g. a baby assigned female at birth who is then weeks later assigned male at birth later transitions to be a girl, she was originally assigned female at birth - is she trans or cis?
Instead the peaks represent the most common combination of male and female sex traits in humans, with the slopes representing less common combinations of traits, e.g. to the left of the male peak might be men who experience excessive androgenization like lots of body hair, maybe precocious puberty, early balding, and so on (more male traits than average).
This chart as a model of sex actually doesn’t make much sense, since sex has been redefined in light of how complex sex is and the differences in sexual development that occur.
Where on the chart would we put someone with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS)? With CAIS a person is born with XY chromosomes and thus has a typical male karyotype, but their androgen receptors do not respond to androgens, so none of the masculinization is able to occur - leading the person to look, develop, and usually live as a woman.
The chart implies a spectrum, when the reality of biological sex is much more complex than a simple spectrum would allow - more like a constellation. Each sex differentiated trait is an axis / spectrum of its own, and there are thousands of ways differentiation can happen.
Yes, hyperreal genders do exist, but are not stable outside lab conditions.
I would submit David Bowie as a counter example.
Well, clearly. If you define a male characteristic as something that’s more common in men than in women and vice-versa, then e.g. being tall would be a “male characteristic”.
Height isn’t a binary thing with men being exactly Xcm tall and women exactly Ycm, so there’s people who have more of said male characteristic and people who have less. And you also have women who have more of this characteristic and some men (e.g. there are some women that are taller than some men).
The same can be done for every characteristic that’s associated with a gender. Genitals are on a spectrum (large clitoris vs micropenis), fat distribution is on a spectrum (e.g. there are men with breasts and women without), body hair is on a spectrum, hormone distribution is on a spectrum and so on and so on.
If you take a lot of characteristics at once it becomes clear in most cases whether the person you are dealing with is a man or a woman (though there are some where that’s more difficult or impossible), but if you take just a single characteristic (e.g. height) it’s impossible to say whether the person you are dealing with is definitively a man or a woman.
It means that traditionally understood cis male can still have some female characteristics (no facial hair, higher pitched voice, bad at driving) but some males will have none.
bad at driving is a male trait
(though that’s partially for social reasons, biological factors are not the only relevant)
Yeah, I was kidding.
I don’t think it’s an accepted term anymore, but you reminded me that they used to call the triple X chromosome syndrome by the term Super-Female-Syndrome.
Probably not what the author intended though.
…
I am a horrible person, but the only thing I can think of reading this is a small-circuit pro wrestling event where all participants have this set of chromosomes, billed as ‘The Triple X Throwdown’, for the title of Supreme Female.
yes.
Yeah but they decay into sometjing indistinguishable from a cis person in like five seconds outside of extremely exotic lab conditions, so it’s more accurate to say they’re possible than “they exist”.
If certain people could almost understand they would be very upset
I’m a career physicist, and I honestly have no idea what a state of matter is anymore.
I would wager you have more of an idea of what a state of matter is than biologists do of what a species is. Humans like to put things into neat boxes but nature is under no deal obligation to cooperate.
Interacting fields of non-causality?
An abstraction used for grouping kinds of things together for the purposes of making thinking about them a lot faster.
Simple, “solid state” means “no moving parts”, like a vacuum tube, for example.
You’d be surprised.
Well I know the liquid phase is what happened after I ate at that filthy pizza place. Yikes.
Could there be a spherical object inside that tube? Just for familiarities sake
Are gas atoms spherical?
Only if it’s a cow
Can I offer you a nice smectic B3 liquid crystal in this trying time?
You may not.
yeah i have a bachelor’s in chemistry and I remember a professor earnestly saying the phrase “metallic phase nitrogen” and I think I went home and stared at the ceiling for an hour
Loads of pressure? Even Quarks get metallic with more pressure.
Yeah apparently there’s metallic nitrogen in the Earth’s core
though the meme is cool, gender isn’t particularly a biology (or ‘advance biology’) thing. biology deals with sexes, their expressions and functionalities. gender is more of a personal and social concept but often related to sex characteristics (cis).
and yes, advanced biology tells sex determination isn’t as easy as XX or XY or even looking at genitals like a creep.
and oh, for giggles consider fungi :)
I don’t entirely agree, because gender identity is known to be at least partially biological, e.g. there are correlations between transgenderism, skin elasticity, and hyper-flexibility.
just FYI, “transgenderism” is a word to avoid (at least if you don’t want to be perceived as transphobic)
and yes, gender identity seems to be biological, and genetic.
Adding to this: XX and XY works for mammals, but not for other vertebrates (fish, birds, reptiles, amphibians). Birds and reptiles have Z and W chromosomes, and unlike in mammals where females are homozygotes, males in these groups are homozygotes. Some reptiles have temperature dependent sex determination, where ambient temperature above some value will produce males or females (depends on species). Some reptiles are composed entirely of females.
Some fish will straight up change sexes depending on age and male-female ratio in a social group.
In other groups it’s not even different chromosomes but simply copy number of specific genes.
Plants can do all sorts of whacky things like produce seeds and pollen in the same individual.
Fungi are an entirely different cluster fuck because they have mating types which are not simple binaries.
Eukaryotic sex determination isn’t a binary and it isn’t even a nicely categorizable spectrum. It’s a grab-bag of whatever doesn’t perma-fuck your genome.
Source: me, I’m a biologist. Though admittedly I work on animals so my understanding of fungi and plant stuff is fuzzy at best.
And bee queen generate full-animal-sized flying sperm, aka drones.
Slime mold(which is not a mold or fungi) looks around nervously in it’s 13 different sexes.
I would say gender is probably centered about around psychology, ranges mostly from sociology to biology, with a just little bit going into chemistry
maybe like
What’s the y-axis?
More yes
it’s a normalized distribution. The y-axis is unitless.
Reason for another XKCD comic about bad graphs (or ten).
What kind of fungi should I consider for the maximum giggles?
Psychology is technically a branch of advanced biology
Related:
A lot of problems in the world can be attributed to people who think “if I don’t understand something, it must be because the experts saying it are all wrong”.
Spot on
When Newton worked out the laws of motion, he figured they had to be correct because they were so simple and elegant.
He had no idea that relativity was going to come in and fuck his shit up.
And then there was quantum.
“Noooooooooo!” -Albert Einstein
Do you have any idea how fast you were going?
No officer, but I can tell you exactly where I am!
Which is also simple and elegant
And then string theory. Which . . .
The music of the universe is a symphony, damnit. That’s inherently complex!
It’s a genuine shame the vibrating strings of reality sound like tinnitus to me.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Which is also simple and elegant
TBF the laws of motion are still correct.
it’s not that they are “correct”, it’s that they are a close enough approximation to work well enough at the scale they’re used. it’s not like the universe runs on math.
He did also notice that the planets didn’t move quite exactly as he predicted and said “well, God must keep them in place”
“Now excuse me I’m going to go behead some counterfeiters.”
I mean relativity is elegant enough in its own right; it’s just Newton’s laws plus the constancy of the speed of light and the equivalence principle. These two additions are enough to make everything an order of magnitude more fucked up, but that’s math’s fault, not relativity.
now do quantum
A genderino sounds more like something you’d find in particle physics than biology anyway
Right alongside gender fluid.
finally, we found what genderfluid is made from
Considering the names of the types of quarks, I recommend renaming them genderinos.
Physicists are freaky, like who was out there going and asking quarks what is their power dynamic in sex?
“I’m a charm in the streets, and a strange in the sheets.”
I’m down for a strap on, but what is a glue on??
This guy rotates
It also kinda sounds like a Pokémon!
Honestly, people would probably object more to advanced math than advanced biology if they were exposed as much to it. Or basic math. Or elementary math…
Math is extremely irrational.
Math is not real sometimes. Imaginary, even.
Math even is non-constructible a lot of the time!
i
I mean, aye!
j, k
Wait, now there are 3?
e0…e7
What now mutha fucka?
Octonions, my beloved
I can confirm. My partner does math professionally and sometimes she tells me things about her field that are just plain unnatural. And I’m a pretty open-minded person.
So true and it’s a great to remind them of that sort of thing.
You know, you’d think all of the people who say it’s purely down to genetics would be natural allies with, you know, molecular biologists (applied genetics). They’d be all like “it’s a Y chromosome or nothing” and the biologists would be all like “yeah chromosomes!” because we fucking love chromosomes but no. In fact, it’s noticeably absent when you start to think about it.
I wonder why that might be?
The short answer is “because it’s infinitely more complicated than that.”
Just because you carry the genetic code for anything at all, it doesn’t mean you’ll express it. The default setting for our DNA is off. So, if something isn’t telling it to transcribe, it won’t do it. A whole load of reasons could cause that, even before we get to mutations and partial expression or chimeras etc.
Anyway, what i mean is yeah, this meme!
Edit: also, don’t beleive the AI. Early fetuses are female, until the Y is activated. You could have an inactivated Y and the fetus could be a woman capable of having children. The default setting is female, not intersex. It could be either but unless a specific event happens, it will always be female. It’s a subtle but important difference. This means that all fetuses are female and then turn into a male.
Always wear your glasses. Sans glasses, I read the Advanced Math panel saying the square root of -1=1, and thought, “that’s doesn’t sound right.”
The problem is those morons haven’t taken any of the advanced classes and probably got D’s in the basic ones.
Sqrt(-1) is still wrong tho. I’m commuting a sin by writting it. Correct expression is i^2=-1
Wolfram tells me
sqrt(-1) = i
and it hasn’t lied to me yet.In what meaningful way is
i^2 = -1
different fromsqrt(-1) = i
?sqrt(-1) = ±i. The negative answer is also valid.
This is technically incorrect. While the square root is both the positive and the negative solution, the sqrt (√) operator results in the principal square root. For nonnegative numbers this is the nonnegative square root and more generalised for complex numbers it’s the square root that halves the complex phase.
Ah, good point; I’d forgotten that part.
Square root definition does not allow a negative number as an input. Only positives and zero. Although it is possible to expand the definition to negative numbers, complex numbers, matrices… So unless you followed a course where you thoroughly defined your expansion of sqrt, it only applies to real, positives number and zero. Its the thing with math, you have to define what you work with.
In my case, I did prep courses for entrance exam to engineering schools (something like in dead poet society but more modern), using sqrt(-1) somewhere would be an instant 0 mark. Like forgetting a unit in a physics test answer.
Sounds to me like this is exactly what the OP meme is referencing.
Basic math: square root only of positive numbers and 0.
Advanced math: square root of anything you want
You’re missing the point. Math (especially advanced) is about precision and rigor. Writing sqrt of something negative is ambiguous. There are better ways of writing it as explained here https://lemmy.world/comment/18924227
Except that yes, math is about precision and rigor, and yes, the square root of negative numbers is totally allowed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_root#Square_roots_of_negative_and_complex_numbers) and yes, math totally allows for statements with multiple solutions.
sin(x) = 0
also has infinite solutions and yet it’s totally legal for x to make an equation like that.
So what’s the square root of your mom then?
Damn, hoisted by my own petard.
√∞ = ∞
You mean limit of sqrt(x) when x->+inf = +inf
I’m very sorry you had to go through such stupid school tests, welcome to the real world.
sqrt(x)
is just a shorthand forx^(1/2)
.
But (-i)^2=-1 as well. So we still need a convention to distinguish i from -i.
That’s fairly simple: we restrict the complex phase to the range (-pi, pi] and the principal square root halves the complex phase. -1 has the phase value pi, so the principal square root has the the complex phase pi/2, so it’s i, while -i has a phase of -pi/2
Wouldn’t the square root just give plus/minus i? Seems correct enough.
No. The symbol √ signifies the principal square root of a number. Therefore, √x is always positive. The two roots of x, however, are ±√x. If you therefore have y²=x and you want to find y, you mustn’t write y=√x, but rather y=±√x to be formally correct.
They’re the same thing. You just take the square root of both sides to get i = sqrt(-1).
Indeed, usually you would want to avoid a notation of
sqrt(-1)
or(-1)^(1/2)
. You would usee^(1/2 log(-1))
instead because mathematicians have already decided on a “natural” way to define the logarithm of complex numbers. The problem here lies with choosing a branch of the logarithm ase^z = x
has infinitely many complex solutionsz
. Mathematicians have already decided on a default branch of the logarithm you would usually use. This matters because depending on the branch you choosesqrt(-1)
either givesi
or-i
. A square-root is usually defined to only give the positive solution (if it had multiple values it wouldn’t fit the definition of a function anymore) but on the complex plane there isn’t really a “positive” direction. You would have to choose that first to make suresqrt
is defined as a function and you do that via the logarithm branch.
So, just writingsqrt(-1)
leaves ambiguity as you could either define it to givei
or-i
but writinge^(1/2 log(-1))
then everyone would just assume you use the default logarithm branch and the solution isi
.Nah, sqrt(x) is the principal branch (the one with a positive real part) of x^½, and you can do (-1)^½ because it’s just exponentiation.
Simply define it as i = e^(iπ/2) 🤣