• affiliate@lemmy.world
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    11 hours ago

    i think that if more people were exposed to advanced math there would be a reactionary trend of people going around and asking mathematicians “what is a number?”

    • x0x7@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      There is a slight difference though in that complex numbers are a part of math but gender isn’t really a part of biology.

      Also the mathematicians wouldn’t decline to give an answer.

      • monotremata@lemmy.ca
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        1 hour ago

        Also the mathematicians wouldn’t decline to give an answer.

        Are you sure? I only minored in math, but even I would struggle to provide an answer to this. It would have to be something incredibly vague, like “a number is a mathematical object that has certain consistent properties relevant to the field of study.” Because otherwise you get situations like “is infinity a number?” and you can’t answer categorically, because usually it’s not, but then you look at the transfinite numbers where you can indeed have omega-plus-one as a number. And someone asks if you can have an infinite number of digits to the left of the decimal place, and you say “well, not in the reals, but there are the P-adic numbers…” and folks ask if you can have an infinitely small number and you say “well, in the reals you can only have an arbitrarily small number, but in game theory there are the surreal numbers, where…”

        So yeah, I’m not sure “what is a number” is even a math question. It’s more a philosophy question, or sometimes a cognitive science question (like Lakoff and Nuñez’s “Where Mathematics Comes From”).

    • szczuroarturo@programming.dev
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      3 hours ago

      Ehh not really its just to old if a concept for us to be appaled by that. Its not 15 century for imaginary numbers to cause riots.

  • k4gie@lemmy.world
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    9 hours ago

    Do the two tails left of M and right of F mean there are males more male than cis males, and similarly with females?

    • dandelion (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 hour ago

      The peaks do not designate “cis”, you can be cis and fall anywhere on the chart - being cis is about the sex you were arbitrarily assigned at birth (and whether that assignment aligns or conflicts with your actual gender identity).

      And when doctors change assignments, it’s really unclear whether you’re cis or not if you transition - e.g. a baby assigned female at birth who is then weeks later assigned male at birth later transitions to be a girl, she was originally assigned female at birth - is she trans or cis?

      Instead the peaks represent the most common combination of male and female sex traits in humans, with the slopes representing less common combinations of traits, e.g. to the left of the male peak might be men who experience excessive androgenization like lots of body hair, maybe precocious puberty, early balding, and so on (more male traits than average).

      This chart as a model of sex actually doesn’t make much sense, since sex has been redefined in light of how complex sex is and the differences in sexual development that occur.

      Where on the chart would we put someone with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS)? With CAIS a person is born with XY chromosomes and thus has a typical male karyotype, but their androgen receptors do not respond to androgens, so none of the masculinization is able to occur - leading the person to look, develop, and usually live as a woman.

      The chart implies a spectrum, when the reality of biological sex is much more complex than a simple spectrum would allow - more like a constellation. Each sex differentiated trait is an axis / spectrum of its own, and there are thousands of ways differentiation can happen.

    • squaresinger@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      Well, clearly. If you define a male characteristic as something that’s more common in men than in women and vice-versa, then e.g. being tall would be a “male characteristic”.

      Height isn’t a binary thing with men being exactly Xcm tall and women exactly Ycm, so there’s people who have more of said male characteristic and people who have less. And you also have women who have more of this characteristic and some men (e.g. there are some women that are taller than some men).

      The same can be done for every characteristic that’s associated with a gender. Genitals are on a spectrum (large clitoris vs micropenis), fat distribution is on a spectrum (e.g. there are men with breasts and women without), body hair is on a spectrum, hormone distribution is on a spectrum and so on and so on.

      If you take a lot of characteristics at once it becomes clear in most cases whether the person you are dealing with is a man or a woman (though there are some where that’s more difficult or impossible), but if you take just a single characteristic (e.g. height) it’s impossible to say whether the person you are dealing with is definitively a man or a woman.

    • ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
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      6 hours ago

      It means that traditionally understood cis male can still have some female characteristics (no facial hair, higher pitched voice, bad at driving) but some males will have none.

    • Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de
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      9 hours ago

      I don’t think it’s an accepted term anymore, but you reminded me that they used to call the triple X chromosome syndrome by the term Super-Female-Syndrome.

      Probably not what the author intended though.

      • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works
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        5 hours ago

        I am a horrible person, but the only thing I can think of reading this is a small-circuit pro wrestling event where all participants have this set of chromosomes, billed as ‘The Triple X Throwdown’, for the title of Supreme Female.

      • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        8 hours ago

        Yeah but they decay into sometjing indistinguishable from a cis person in like five seconds outside of extremely exotic lab conditions, so it’s more accurate to say they’re possible than “they exist”.

  • serenissi@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    though the meme is cool, gender isn’t particularly a biology (or ‘advance biology’) thing. biology deals with sexes, their expressions and functionalities. gender is more of a personal and social concept but often related to sex characteristics (cis).

    and yes, advanced biology tells sex determination isn’t as easy as XX or XY or even looking at genitals like a creep.

    and oh, for giggles consider fungi :)

    • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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      8 hours ago

      I don’t entirely agree, because gender identity is known to be at least partially biological, e.g. there are correlations between transgenderism, skin elasticity, and hyper-flexibility.

    • oyfrog@lemmy.world
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      18 hours ago

      Adding to this: XX and XY works for mammals, but not for other vertebrates (fish, birds, reptiles, amphibians). Birds and reptiles have Z and W chromosomes, and unlike in mammals where females are homozygotes, males in these groups are homozygotes. Some reptiles have temperature dependent sex determination, where ambient temperature above some value will produce males or females (depends on species). Some reptiles are composed entirely of females.

      Some fish will straight up change sexes depending on age and male-female ratio in a social group.

      In other groups it’s not even different chromosomes but simply copy number of specific genes.

      Plants can do all sorts of whacky things like produce seeds and pollen in the same individual.

      Fungi are an entirely different cluster fuck because they have mating types which are not simple binaries.

      Eukaryotic sex determination isn’t a binary and it isn’t even a nicely categorizable spectrum. It’s a grab-bag of whatever doesn’t perma-fuck your genome.

      Source: me, I’m a biologist. Though admittedly I work on animals so my understanding of fungi and plant stuff is fuzzy at best.

  • ch00f@lemmy.world
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    21 hours ago

    When Newton worked out the laws of motion, he figured they had to be correct because they were so simple and elegant.

    He had no idea that relativity was going to come in and fuck his shit up.

  • gjoel@programming.dev
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    21 hours ago

    Honestly, people would probably object more to advanced math than advanced biology if they were exposed as much to it. Or basic math. Or elementary math…

  • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    So true and it’s a great to remind them of that sort of thing.

    You know, you’d think all of the people who say it’s purely down to genetics would be natural allies with, you know, molecular biologists (applied genetics). They’d be all like “it’s a Y chromosome or nothing” and the biologists would be all like “yeah chromosomes!” because we fucking love chromosomes but no. In fact, it’s noticeably absent when you start to think about it.

    I wonder why that might be?

    The short answer is “because it’s infinitely more complicated than that.”

    Just because you carry the genetic code for anything at all, it doesn’t mean you’ll express it. The default setting for our DNA is off. So, if something isn’t telling it to transcribe, it won’t do it. A whole load of reasons could cause that, even before we get to mutations and partial expression or chimeras etc.

    Anyway, what i mean is yeah, this meme!

    Edit: also, don’t beleive the AI. Early fetuses are female, until the Y is activated. You could have an inactivated Y and the fetus could be a woman capable of having children. The default setting is female, not intersex. It could be either but unless a specific event happens, it will always be female. It’s a subtle but important difference. This means that all fetuses are female and then turn into a male.

  • Bronstein_Tardigrade@lemmygrad.ml
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    18 hours ago

    Always wear your glasses. Sans glasses, I read the Advanced Math panel saying the square root of -1=1, and thought, “that’s doesn’t sound right.”

  • panda_abyss@lemmy.ca
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    19 hours ago

    The problem is those morons haven’t taken any of the advanced classes and probably got D’s in the basic ones.

  • m8052@lemmy.world
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    21 hours ago

    Sqrt(-1) is still wrong tho. I’m commuting a sin by writting it. Correct expression is i^2=-1

        • excral@feddit.org
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          8 hours ago

          This is technically incorrect. While the square root is both the positive and the negative solution, the sqrt (√) operator results in the principal square root. For nonnegative numbers this is the nonnegative square root and more generalised for complex numbers it’s the square root that halves the complex phase.

      • m8052@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        Square root definition does not allow a negative number as an input. Only positives and zero. Although it is possible to expand the definition to negative numbers, complex numbers, matrices… So unless you followed a course where you thoroughly defined your expansion of sqrt, it only applies to real, positives number and zero. Its the thing with math, you have to define what you work with.

        In my case, I did prep courses for entrance exam to engineering schools (something like in dead poet society but more modern), using sqrt(-1) somewhere would be an instant 0 mark. Like forgetting a unit in a physics test answer.

    • msfroh@lemmy.ca
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      20 hours ago

      But (-i)^2=-1 as well. So we still need a convention to distinguish i from -i.

      • excral@feddit.org
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        8 hours ago

        That’s fairly simple: we restrict the complex phase to the range (-pi, pi] and the principal square root halves the complex phase. -1 has the phase value pi, so the principal square root has the the complex phase pi/2, so it’s i, while -i has a phase of -pi/2

      • Opisek@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        No. The symbol √ signifies the principal square root of a number. Therefore, √x is always positive. The two roots of x, however, are ±√x. If you therefore have y²=x and you want to find y, you mustn’t write y=√x, but rather y=±√x to be formally correct.

    • Ethanol@pawb.social
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      18 hours ago

      Indeed, usually you would want to avoid a notation of sqrt(-1) or (-1)^(1/2). You would use e^(1/2 log(-1)) instead because mathematicians have already decided on a “natural” way to define the logarithm of complex numbers. The problem here lies with choosing a branch of the logarithm as e^z = x has infinitely many complex solutions z. Mathematicians have already decided on a default branch of the logarithm you would usually use. This matters because depending on the branch you choose sqrt(-1) either gives i or -i. A square-root is usually defined to only give the positive solution (if it had multiple values it wouldn’t fit the definition of a function anymore) but on the complex plane there isn’t really a “positive” direction. You would have to choose that first to make sure sqrt is defined as a function and you do that via the logarithm branch.
      So, just writing sqrt(-1) leaves ambiguity as you could either define it to give i or -i but writing e^(1/2 log(-1)) then everyone would just assume you use the default logarithm branch and the solution is i.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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      20 hours ago

      Nah, sqrt(x) is the principal branch (the one with a positive real part) of x^½, and you can do (-1)^½ because it’s just exponentiation.