Hi all!
We’re very excited to move to Denmark soon as lifelong Americans. I have a good job lined up, and we’re set on a place to live for a while.
Any advice from people who have done it, looked it up, had friends who have done it, etc? Just in general :)
Think of other topics and questions than work, Americans care too much about work outside of work.
Switch your phone apps to celsius and start your brain switching ASAP.
Knowing what country or region you’re going to would help
Oh switching to metric is a great idea.
Denmark :)
American here, got stationed in Italy for a few years. Learning Celsius was easy with this in mind:
0 freezing
10 cool
20 nice
30 hot
40 swelteringIf you need to do the actual calculation, double the celsius value, subtract the tens digit (i.e. -10%), add 32. For example:
Double it: 20 * 2 = 40
Subtract the tens digit: 40 - 4 = 36
Add 32: 36+32 = 68Cool!!
Or a “good enough” rough estimate is: double (the Celsius number) + 30
(0 * 2) + 30 = 30F freezing
(10 * 2) + 30 = 50F cool
(20 * 2) + 30 = 70F nice
(30 * 2) + 30 = 90F hot
(40 * 2) + 30 = 110F sweltering
In reverse: subtract 30 (from the Fahrenheit number), and divide by 2
(30F - 30) / 2 = 0 C freezing
(40F - 30) / 2 = 5 C freezing
(50F - 30) / 2 = 10 C cool
(60F - 30) / 2 = 15 C cool
(70F - 30) / 2 = 20 C nice
(80F - 30) / 2 = 25 C nice
(90F - 30) / 2 = 30 C hot
(100F - 30) / 2 = 35 C hot
(110F - 30) / 2 = 40 C sweltering
(120F - 30) / 2 = 45 C start praying
It’s easier to just remember a few key values and estimate based on those. I know the conversions for every ten degrees Celsius from -10 to 30
Never met an American who wants to “talk about work” out here. They all prefer to keep their free time work-discussion free.
The danish people will maybe say a lot of things about us swedes, but don’t believe the lies.
Do not believe this liar. Danes speak the truth.
Too bad nobody can understand what they are saying
Could a Dane confirm any of this or review it?
Am Danish. This is fairly accurate, a solid 60% of Danish is just random guttural sounds. This documentary however misses that the remainder is 30% raw deadpan sarcasm, and 10% English words pronounced in an awful accent.
To contrast and compare, this is an average modern Swedish television quiz show: https://youtu.be/lzv6ljgwgzs
Frederick,
Thank you very much for this quality review, comment, and link. I’ll have a look this evening.
Euro-fight!
Scandi-fight is even better. All the Danes, Swedes and Norwegians secretly love each other (basically the same people and the same societies) but they’ve made an international sport of dissing each other. It’s like three brothers come home for Christmas.
“Finnish him!”
Denmark isn’t real, it’s a fabrication of big pork to keep us in line. Don’t believe their lies.
Getting new friends in Denmark can be difficuelt at first. Many are reserved and needs to thaw up first. Do not expect colleagues to invite you home, if you are ysed to that. However, when people open up it is because they like and respect you. Danes are in general not superficial as Americans often can be. So remember, we are not unfriendly, just different from Americans :) Advise from a 100% Dane.
Lol, and Danes are definitely the most outgoing of the Nordics. I’ve found Danes to be pretty similar in terms of outgoing-ness to people from New England in the US; unlikely to start conversation with complete strangers, but certainly kind once you have that initial connection.
As a Norwegian: seconded. It’s tough to get real close and personal with Nordic people. We have smaller friend groups and don’t swap out friends often, but that is largely because we are quite loyal. So when you’re in, you’re in to stay.
That’s great, I like that a lot. As the commenter below said, sounds like New England to an extent. I’m fine with that and happy with less superficial
First of all, a practical item that people sometimes forget: traffic laws are different in every country. Even if your driver’s license is valid in other countries, take a moment to read up on traffic rules.
If you live in a city, give public transport a serious consideration. It’s not for everybody and not every place has good connections, but you’d be surprised how little you need a car if you live in an area well-served by public transport.
As with any foreign country, you’ll do well to learn the language. Written Danish probably isn’t too difficult to learn when you already know English (they share a heritage after all) but spoken Danish is quite peculiar. You’ll probably get by with just English just fine, but most people will prefer to speak their native language.
What I’ve heard from family moving to Denmark: check and double check your tax information and registration. The bureaucratic process can take a while, even when moving within the Schengen zone. Also: America has some weird laws where you need to pay taxes regardless of if you live there or not, as long as you’re a citizen. Make sure you know how much taxes you need to pay to what government! You generally don’t need to pay tax in both countries unless you make a boatload of money but it can’t hurt to check.
Speaking of, you’ll pay a lot of taxes. You get a lot in return, but make sure you know what your net income is going to be like and what taxes are hiding around the corner. The amazing Danish welfare state needs to be funded somehow!
If you live near any borders (European definition of “near”), check any visas you may have for what you’re allowed to do. Some visas allow you to move freely within a single country but not leave it for x amount of days consecutively/in a year, for instance. Denmark is actually one of the few countries with border checks (Germany too these days).
What I’ve heard from other Americans visiting Europe: it’s smaller than you think and everything seems closer than you think. That’s very nice when it comes to stuff like grocery stores, but some people feel a little claustrophobic because of the lack of free, open space.
Make sure your credit card is set to allow for international payments, unless you already have your money in a Danish bank account. You don’t want to arrive and find out you can’t pay for anything.
Get yourself a local SIM card. It’s probably a lot cheaper than carrying your American number in general, but roaming charges between the US and the EU are Not Fun.
Most Danes speak English well, in my experience. However, don’t let that fool you into thinking they share the same cultural norms. Things common in some American subcultures (calling everyone “dear”, saying stuff like “we should hang out some time” without actually meaning it) can cause some humorous/awkward interactions when misinterpreted. Knowing the words isn’t the same as knowing what you actually mean!
Prepare to do a lot of currency conversions in your head. You can get tricked into spending more money than you thought if you don’t know what amount of DDK translates to USD. 1 USD is about 6.8 DDK, so yeah, good luck with that, multiply by seven and subtract a bit I guess?
Stores in Denmark will often show prices including tax, so don’t do too much mental math. You generally don’t need to apply the 25% VAT on listed prices unless you’re buying business to business.
Based on experience from expats: immerse yourself into the local culture and language. Making connections with strangers is hard, likely harder than in the US, but you’ll end up quite lonely if you only hang out with coworkers and other expats.
Also read up on punctuality expectations. Some cultures expect you to be five minutes to half an hour “late” to an agreed upon time, others expect you to be there much earlier, and then other cultures expect you to arrive right on time. That applies both professionally and socially!
On a similar note, make sure you read about the expectations your coworkers may have of you, culturally. If you work for an American company you may end up with an American style corporate hierarchy, but Danish companies are a lot more egalitarian on average. Not just office wise, but also “only addressing the boss by their first name” wise.
Working overtime may not be appreciated as much, and may even be seen as a bad thing in some contexts (i.e. constantly working after 5PM to finish your work, implying you can’t finish in time when you’re really trying to show your work ethic or something like that). Work/life balance is important and every country has different standards.
From what I can tell, the Danes are quite strict in not wanting to spend too much of their life working, so don’t be that person that brings work into every conversation. As a foreigner, you probably have much more interesting topics to talk about!
I’ve only head good things about Denmark from people who worked/moved there, so I hope you enjoy your time there!
expats
The word is “immigrants” but Brits and Yanks are scared to call themselves that lol
Most expats leave after a few years. They only move in to make a quick buck with tax advantages and then move back/on to another country.
I suppose they’re a form of immigrant, but a very specific subgroup. One that often also doesn’t intend to integrate with local culture, so their approach is quite different from most legal immigrants. You can’t really compare the experiences of war refugees with Americans that come work in another country for five years, even though they’re both forms of immigrants.
I don’t just consider the Brits and Americans to be expats, I’ve also met expats from eastern Europe, India, and South East Asia. Maybe the rich expats don’t like to be grouped together with them, but I also consider the cheap eastern European labourers that do jobs like working the fields for half a year to be expats.
If you work for an American company you may end up with an American style corporate hierarchy, but Danish companies are a lot more egalitarian on average. Not just office wise, but also “only addressing the boss by their first name” wise.
That’s been a thing in the USA for decades.
It’s a bit hard to articulate the difference I’ve noticed with Americans when talking about work. It’s not like America is stuck in the 60s with executive toilets and executive lunches, but office culture definitely seems different.
What probably makes a difference is the difference in management styles.
Wait, stores display prices in the US without the tax? Wth? That can’t be!
It’s definitely a thing.
Which tax? Federal? State? County? City/Municipality? What if some of those are zero?
This is why no one does it. I think smart labels may change that some day, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Edit: ah, to be clear, those tax types can all vary. I used to shop at a place where the same store on the opposite side of the street was cheaper because the tax rate was less.
They know the price to charge at the till so they definitely can show the full price. It’s just convention not to at this point. Why go through the effort when it only makes you look more expensive compared to the competition, after all?
The reason usually mentioned is that the labels are produced centrally or some such. Though "They know the price to charge at the till’ might be slightly off when the tax is calculated on the transaction as a whole rather than on a per-item basis (i.e. rounding shenanigans). That seems like a totally solvable problem to me, though.
I took my wife to meet my parents and had to remind her when we went shopping that we had to add tax to everything (and tip in bars/restaurants/etc.) Some things looked cheaper than in Japan until tax (especially at that time when the exchange rate was awful).
Sending the labels from a central location seems wildly inefficient when label printers are as cheap as they are.
Plus, prices are already adjusted at the state level at the very least, if you’re gonna ship every store their labels from a central location you may as well update the tax info on them.
Even the budget stores here are switching to a digital display system with those small e-ink displays. When that technology hits the US, there really won’t be an excuse not to label things including tax anymore.
When I was last in the US, most of the supermarkets and such had the eink displays, but most other places didn’t yet.
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I mean I guess stores in places with 0% sales tax don’t, technically. American stores just don’t want to bother doing the math while labeling and make you do the math in your head (and then they do it at the till).
Another consequence of the crazy American tax system.
Yeah, this is all great advice. I work for a very European style company in the US and will work for a Danish company in Denmark. So I’m not expecting total culture shock (like our CEO currently wears a T-shirt and sneakers, you can have a beer with him) like going to Japan would be, but also looking forward to less work focus.
Yeah, the mental math of money, units, will all be a lot. But we’ll get used to it!
I’m stoked for the smaller, car-free, perhaps simpler life.
Jumping on this to evangelise about some car ownership alternatives, as it can even be quite the cultural leap even for some Europeans to not own a car.
Firstly Denmark has some brilliant cycling infrastructure I would highly recommend sourcing a bike with a pannier rack to make small trips to the shops easier. If you enjoy it you can always go all in later with a cargo bike and there are many - even from local brands - to choose from (although I have an urban arrow I can also recommend a Bullitt (DK))!
For when you do need a car aside from all the big brands rentals there are also peer-2-peer rentals, eg in Finland I will use go more which is great here and while it looks like they also exist in Denmark your mileage may vary, but I have friends in Sweden who have used this there too.
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That is indeed quite accurate and comprehensive.
And as a Dane due to move back after 8 years abroad it feels strangely relevant and slightly alienating 🙃
I’m not moving to Denmark and I’m Dutch but this was an interesting read! Thanks for writing it.
Do you speak the local language, if not start getting courses now, even if many person are fluent in english, not everyone will want to speak English. (You know the joke about Parisian who don’t know English if you start talking with them in English, but would switch to a perfect English if you have a slight foreign accent when speaking french)
Expect that even basic stuff won’t work the same way as you’re used too. It’s already an issue when moving between two European countries, even basic stuff like what you can legally find on a lease or how to get health coverage will drastically change.
In southern Europe people are pretty touchy/tactile and an America would feel sexually harrassed, Nordic Europe is the other way around with pretty distant people where an American would pass for way too touchy/friendly
Learn to ride a bike, and expect to walk way more than in the US, also remember that even though winter are milder, Europe is way far up north than the US
Depending on where you’ll live exactly, look up the local train and bus operator. If you’re in a city, chances are, you won’t even need a car most of the time.
Also get ready to install a different suite of apps. WhatsApp is big in europe, although Signal is obviously preferable when possible.
Yeah, I’ll be in Copenhagen. I hope to not own a car at all! Just a bike and public transit
It’s worth it. I’m almost two years in Germany. Wouldn’t move back for a million dollars (although at 3 I could be bought). Work on the local language, volunteer or other community involvement activities, treat it like the new home it is. We’re fortunate to be able to move to a new country, try to be a part of improving it and earning your spot there. I’m even more fortunate to be white, male, straight etc - assuming you’re at least some of those things, do your best to counter the anti-immigration fear mongering that comes out of the political right. It effects you now, but more importantly it’s ramping up and it’ll effect people less fortunate far worse.
Hope you love it and welcome to Europe.
That’s great advice. I’m really excited to experience it and really embrace it. Thank you!
- learn the language AND CUSTOMS
- don’t hang out in foreigner/english bubbles
- don’t assume anything works the way it does in the US (from gasoline and driving to medical to government). There are lots of little things that seem like they obviously must be done X way but aren’t in other countries
- be careful with any investments. It’s very easy to end up with PFICs which are punitively taxed (making retirement vehicles here in Japan outside of the national pension prohibitive for me, for instance).
- celebrate
- bring any snacks that you can legally bring but they can’t legally sell (some things with food dyes, etc. if you really like them are banned in some countries to produce/sell but not eat).
I got to disagree with the “learn the language and customs” thing. I live (also born and raised) in one of the most culturally diverse cities in America: Germantown, Maryland. I couldn’t be prouder, and I also couldn’t care less if you don’t speak English.
Be yourself. You are welcome here.
That probably depends on the country, but I don’t think you should omit learning language, even as English native, even if everyone around you speak your native one.
I’ve seen that several times already in Poland. Been around a guy from India who was practically monolingual English speaker (his local language is fading away, he should technically still speak it due to his grandparents, but doesn’t or speaks very little) and he straight up refused to learn Polish because he „seen no value” in it, it’s not an easy language to learn and he’d rather just put that time and effort into a MMO game. He only attended lessons to learn to pass an exam that will allow him staying in the country, with no intention to actually learn how to speak. Poles are quite often excited to speak English with somebody as everyone knows importance of it and wants to practice IRL. Everyone around him, like his gf, her family, coworkers in corpo, accept that and they all speak English well, so no obligation on his side. He only knows how to tell cashier that he’ll pay with a debit card and it takes a single word. Well, that’s his choice you can say, but then it was pretty annoying at times to have him around. Imagine standing in a circle joking around and every two sentences that guy asks „What? What did he/she say?”, and someone attempts to translate it to English, but the joke doesn’t work or is not understandable even after translating because it refers to something else in the language, culture, memes, slang etc. Either learn it or expect to be disconnected and excluded at times. That’s all good to tolerate newcomers who don’t yet know much about the culture and language, but it doesn’t look very good to me if that’s a guy who lives here for 8 years and doesn’t have plans moving away anytime soon.
The EU isn’t the US.
Most countries in Europe have this idea of integration where the foreigner learns and adopts the language and culture of the country. You’ll see lots of discussions of “failed” integration of foreigners, especially in Germany.
I think this is still a type of colonialism where they think there culture is better and the foreigner must change, rather than the other way around.
I think the US is a bit better in this regard as there is this idea of a cultural mixing pot and foreigners aren’t expected to “integrate”.
The integration part is because we would like for anyone to fit in, and not be confined to your ‘hood’
We don’t mind you not speaking the language, but English is usually not a first language, sometimes not even a second, and sometimes omitted. Especially in rural areas.
So yeah, it’s nice if we can actually have a conversation about the local soccer team, or town buffoon who thinks the government is conspiring about pricing covid shots too high…
It’s not colonialism to prefer one culture (or certain cultural traits) to another. In fact, it’s natural.
I’ve lived in a number of countries and each had their own distinct cultural norms. Each has had aspects which I perceived as either positive or negative.
Add it all together and I definitely have preferred certain cultures, not because they are “better” but because they more closely match my own preferences. Other people would prefer different cultural norms.
White people moving across the world, imposing their language and culture, is a “cultural mixing pot” ? Did you play a uno reverse card lol
I wasn’t referring to white people immigrating.
Here is an article today from Deutsche Welle covering this issue: https://www.dw.com/en/do-immigrants-have-to-learn-german-in-germany/a-70467984
It’s not just communicating, it’s also stuff for general living, like recognizing road signs, paying bills, dealing with government paperwork, ordering food in restaurants, etc. They won’t always have an English translation beside it, nor do they have an obligation to have it. Same goes for people too.
Say for example, a Japanese just showed up in your hometown, knowing not a lick of English, and planning to live here long term. I’m sure people in your hometown are more than willing to help, but how much stuff in your general life is in English? Surely you can’t expect someone to be able to help them around 24/7, and with a language barrier too.
You gotta know that not everything is going to accommodate for you in foreign places. OP might be able to do well enough since people in Denmark probably speak English well in general. But if you want to truly know the people, their culture, or even form deep connections with some, you have to do some work, and language is a first big step.
This is the absolute worst advice for coming to a European country. It’s probably different in Denmark but for some countries or cities at least you won’t be able to get through the bureaucracy needed to legally immigrate without speaking the language. Even in offices that mainly help foreigners you may find the employees don’t speak English. And if you want to be there long-term, good luck making real connections if you don’t speak the language.
Plus one for taking language lessons. Even if you don’t plan on getting fluent, it will help you settle in a lot more
In my own experience learning Dutch when living in The Netherlands (were, like in Denmark, almost everybody speaks good English) you learn very little and very slow with formal lessons and a lot very fast in situations were you have to manage with the local language (basically sink or swim).
I spent years living there with only basic Dutch and then ended up in a small company were I was the only non-Dutch person and the meetings were conducted in Dutch and within 1 to 2 months my Dutch language skills had taken a massive leap forward.
I also get similar effects with other languages I speak when I go visit those countries: persist in talking to the locals in the local language and that will push your language knowledge up.
That said, at the very beginning language lessons will give you the basic structure for the language, but for going beyond the basics I find that just being forced to use it yields the fastest improvements.
(Might wanna try to start watching local TV at some point too)
By the way, if the Danish are anything like the Dutch, they’ll pick up from the accent that a person is American and switch to English. Do not follow them! Keep talking in Danish even if it feels like it’s pretty bad and hard to use. When I lived in The Netherlands most of my British acquaintances had really poor dutch speaking skills even after over a decade there because of this effect of people picking up their accent and switching to English.
Including which country could help :)
Fair enough, moving to Denmark!
You are welcome! You may visit the danish instance at feddit.dk
Just as Denmark, it is not very large but plenty of people willing to help, mixed with some degree of Danish sarcasm
I haven’t been there, but get a bike!
lucky.
In the middle now.
Wife is already Swedish so I’m doing it on easy mode, plus job is remote.
Politeness, wow, that’s tough to get used to. Trying to fix my silicon valley manners and I’m still coming off as the biggest asshole.
Government is more involved in your life, but it’s not too bad, just something you get used to, ups and downs, they mostly try to help.
Amazon is shit, thats a thing for me, but you manage.
They have a food culture.
No, you may have misunderstood me, I did not say they have food in their culture, I mean a significant part of their societal culture revolves around food.
Did not understand this, used to Door dashing and eating to get by, they don’t do that, food matters to them, spending half a day cooking is just a thing you do, it’s not work to them anymore than watching YouTube is.
Otherwise you’ll get by, just try to tone down your socialization reflexes, they’re more reserved and our outgoing nature can scare them shitless if they’re not ready for it.
Hej Frank!
Welcome in advance!
Where are you gonna live? You don’t need to specify city, but perhaps approximate destination? Jylland, Fyn, Sjælland? And which part?
Which line of work?
Indeed, try to learn Danish even though it is a ridiculous language. I believe there are even free courses, although I am not absolutely sure. Here’s a few words to get you started:
Hej/godmorgen/goddav’ = hello/good morning/howdy (last word especially in Jutland)
Farvel = goodbye
Tak = thank you
Velbekomme = you are welcome
Undskyld = sorry
Undskyld mig = excuse me
Ingen problem = no worries
Jeg hedder Frank = my name is Frank
Godt at møde dig = nice to meet you
Vi ses/hav det godt = see you/take care
Hav en god dag = have a good dayAnd remember! Free health care! Free schools and education! Although you will pay higher taxes, lol.
Hope you will enjoy! And feel free to ask questions. I live very near Aarhus in Eastern Jutland.
EDIT: formatting some how went wrong, just realised now. Sorry! Fixed.
Ah this is great! We are doing some Danish, and will continue to learn it. We’ll be in Copenhagen, which will make leaning on our English a little easier.
I’m an engineer, and my work will be all in English, which is a great way to start.
I spent ~$8,000 USD on shoulder surgery this year. I can’t wait for healthcare lol
- Language is by far the most important door opener, so put in one hour of learning every day for at least a year.
- Mingle to get out of your comfort zone: Go to after-work parties and flea markets, take public transit. Use hobbyist/ meet-up apps. Read/ watch the local news.
- Don’t expect to be invited, especially not to people’s homes. People might also be uncomfortable being invited to your home. Meeting in a public place is almost always the better option, unless you’ve gotten to know someone really well.
- Irony/ sarcasm don’t translate very well between cultures.
- Europe has some lousy weather, so get watertight coats and waterproof your shoes and backpacks.
- Take it slow.
- Also: Enjoy it! Europe is a fantastic little place at the crossroads between Asia and Africa and I would never want to leave.
UK inhabitant here. Is being invited to someone’s house a casual thing in the US? I don’t think I’ve ever been invited by someone who isn’t a close friend.
I lived in Italy and Germany and it does happen here. Mostly with friends you already know reasonably well though.
Greece here, we invite people to our homes all the time, even if we don’t know them very well.
All of this sounds so exciting. Thanks for the reply.
Don’t bring a truck or guns with you. Change some dollars for euros. Remember that the US has an insane tax system that follows you abroad and you still have to file taxes in the US in addition to the country you live in.
yes, be very careful of PFICs. I can’t use any of Japan’s versions of ISA/IRA because they all end up being PFICs which are awful to deal with on the US and more than destroy any tax advantage of putting money in them.
Those Euros will not be a lot of use in Denmark, a country outside of the Eurozone.
Does Denmark even use cash at all? In Sweden cash has been pretty much extinct for at least a decade.
Depressing if true. Using cash lets us keep the transaction out of the records of the government & tech firms.
