Khelif of Algeria and Lin of Taiwan have been the focus of intense attention — and often inaccurate commentary — because both were disqualified at the 2023 world championships

IOC President Thomas Bach said the “hate speech” directed at boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting at the Paris Olympics is “totally unacceptable.”

“We will not take part in a politically motivated … cultural war,” Bach said at a news briefing Saturday at the midway point of the Paris Games, where he wanted to draw a line under days of global scrutiny about the female boxers’ gender.

  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
    704·
    3 months ago

    The IOC being on the right side of history for once? Huzzah!

    Snideness aside, credit where credit is due: though it shouldn’t be, this simple refutation of utter bigoted lunacy is very courageous, given the fucked up political climate, and should be applauded!

    • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
      534·
      3 months ago

      doubt it. would be a firstie. world boxing federation banned them both a while ago. woc and ioc hate each other. thomas bach lied in the interview when he said there was never any indication they wouldnt be women. so i am sure it is the wronf decision. as always.

          • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            221·
            3 months ago

            “It doesn’t matter whether we see the evidence or not. There’s someone who I don’t find attractive that is physically quite capable… SO IT MUST BE A MAN!!!”

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
              252·
              3 months ago

              “I know a man when I see one” has gotten so many cis women harassed because of transphobic bigots. Women with things like mustaches they don’t really feel like shaving every day.

              My wife works with a woman like that. I haven’t talked to her about it because it’s none of my business, but I thought she was trans myself at first. I said to my wife that she must get harassed a lot as a trans woman with a flat chest and a mustache and my wife told me she wasn’t trans but gets harassed a lot anyway.

              I try to be open-minded and accepting, but I made an assumption a cis woman was trans on sight anyway based on biases about what a woman “should” look like that I’ve been shown my whole life. I’m sure they’re no more expert than I am.

          • Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.winEnglish
            39·
            3 months ago

            Even weirder that the IAB disqualified them for having an innate advantage and they either appealed but withdrew it, or didn’t appeal at all as if they themselves believe the veracity of the claim.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
              93·
              3 months ago

              Question for you: What were the tests the IAB administered and who administered them? Do you know? Because I don’t. And they’re refusing to say.

              Does that not strike you as odd?

              Also, if you knew you were being pushed out of a league due to bogus testing and it was coming from the top, why would you appeal?

              • Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.winEnglish
                35·
                3 months ago

                It does strike me as odd, but not as odd as not going through with an appeal. At least with an appeal you have the dignity of refuting the, likely false, allegation and also have a chance to reveal what the ‘evidence’ is. Surrendering without a fight is not a good look imo.

                Edit: while MY end of the following argument is cogent, out of respect for the accused I will point to new evidence that significantly discredits the IBA’s decision and competence. Their citing of an XY karyotype and/or excessive testosterone levels despite clearly stating testosterone and chromosome tests were NOT the initial reason for the DQs is simply baffling.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                  72·
                  3 months ago

                  Suggesting tests are valid just because the results weren’t challenged in public is not how testing works.

          • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            162·
            3 months ago

            All women have testosterone levels, as their ovaries produce androgens. If you wish to police this, I would say that you need to set limits on testosterone across both males and females, as there are disparities in testosterone production in both groups.

            Your writing style is terrible. Have you received enough education to talk about biological issues? To me, your use of ‘tard’ is projection.

            Thanks for calling me ‘Gen Z’. As someone born in 1982, I must look young.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
              61·
              3 months ago

              Their use of that word got their post deleted for ableism. I wish people didn’t think it was appropriate as an insult. I have seen so many disabled people bullied with that word and the longer version.

            • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
              29·
              3 months ago

              and these women just have too high testosterone levels. sorry english isnt my first language. and genY then…thos with zero empathy and childish reflexes.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            261·
            3 months ago

            The “evidence” at that link is:

            Point to note, the athletes did not undergo a testosterone examination but were subject to a separate and recognized test, whereby the specifics remain confidential.

            Which is quite convenient indeed. Especially since they don’t even say what that “recognized test” is or who administered it.

            Also-

            you want to force the women with normal testosterone levels to get beat up by her?

            So I assume this means men with low testosterone have to compete with women, right? Also, you must not have noticed that they were explicitly not given testosterone tests. Your link literally said so.

          • Hanrahan@slrpnk.netEnglish
            141·
            3 months ago

            you want to force the women with normal testosterone levels to get beat up by her? top gentleman move!

            Of course, it’s boxing being “beat up” is what happens. Should the last placed contestant get another go becase they got beatup?

            Unless the governing body want to separate contestants based on t levels, or how many pubes on their labia or some such, like a weigth class, then yes, if they can’t handle it and are going to lose that badly, go do gymnastics or whatever.

            No ones forcing any if these people to compete, so they only one forcing them to be beat up is themselves.

  • workerONE@lemmy.world
    26·
    3 months ago

    The prevalence of 46 XY in the female athletic population is about 7 per 1000 adults, which is 140 times greater than what is seen in the general population. For context, of the 4,676 women competing at the 2012 Summer Olympic Games in London, we would predict ~32 women competitors would have a 46 XY

    Source: Bermon S, Garnier PY, Hirschberg AL, et al. Serum androgen levels in elite female athletes. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2014;99(11):4328-4335

    • dexa_scantron@lemmy.world
      401·
      3 months ago

      True, but largely irrelevant. There is no evidence that Khelif has XY chromosomes aside from an accusation by one corrupt Russian boxing official, made after Khelif beat a Russian boxer. They have not produced the test, said where it was done or what the results were.

      Here’s an AP News article with lots of information on the IBA and why their claims about Khelif are suspect: https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-khelif-russia-boxing-b53b1edda21139d14a572bd35ca440e6

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        13·
        3 months ago

        Someone in reply to me above inadvertently showed a very simple reason why they’re suspect by trying to prove they had accurate testing by sending me to the IBA’s own press release, which stated:

        Point to note, the athletes did not undergo a testosterone examination but were subject to a separate and recognized test, whereby the specifics remain confidential.

        They won’t even say how they tested her or who they administered the test. Just “we tested them, but not for testosterone, and believe us when we say the test results of the type of test we won’t tell you they took say they’re women.”

        And people keep telling me this is about testosterone. So if they weren’t tested by the IBA for testosterone, why does testosterone matter?

        • dexa_scantron@lemmy.world
          10·
          3 months ago

          The simplest explanation is that they didn’t do any tests, and this whole kerfuffle is a very successful act of revenge on the IOC, Khelif, and the rest of the sports world.

          • rhombus@sh.itjust.works
            8·
            3 months ago

            The AP article linked above even points out that it was three days after she beat a previously undefeated Russian newcomer. By disqualifying Khelif after the fact they retroactively made the Russian boxers record “perfect” again. Now they’re just trying to cause more issues after being stripped of their international recognition a few years ago.

            • Jojo, Lady of the West@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              5·
              3 months ago

              Honestly, these ex post facto disqualifications seem pretty fishy to me to begin with. Shouldn’t qualification happen before a match, not after the results have already been decided?

              • rhombus@sh.itjust.works
                1·
                3 months ago

                Totally, especially for something that the boxer has no control over. It’s clearly just a way for them to invalidate the results they don’t like.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            4·
            3 months ago

            I don’t think it matters either way. Until we’re told at the very least what the tests were or who administered them, any testing is irrelevant. They don’t even need to say what the results were. All they have to say is, “we did X test on them and Y doctor administered it and Z lab did the analysis.”

            Did they test them? Who knows? Who cares until they give us the details?

        • workerONE@lemmy.world
          3·
          3 months ago

          There’s so many people starting up discussions that aren’t factually relevant, like the testosterone discussion. Just wondering, why did you refer to the boxer as him? Maybe a typo?

    • Nomecks@lemmy.ca
      16·
      3 months ago

      This simply indicates that this genetic makeup is advantageous in sports. I would imagine the average height and weight for both genders is probably out of the norm by a wide margin too.

      • thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world
        3·
        3 months ago

        xy genetics are kinda like crack for physical activity. It’s probably one of the widest gaps between the biological sexs. xy sexed individuals have a large advantage unless under long term and early hormone suppression

  • jaybone@lemmy.world
    62·
    3 months ago

    I read the article and I still don’t get it. Why are these people not allowed to compete as women? Do they identify as men?

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
      264·
      3 months ago

      No. They identify as women. The IOC agrees. We don’t know how they were tested or what the test results actually were by the IBA since they aren’t being open about it. But it doesn’t matter because the IOC doesn’t accept IBA results.

      What’s funny is that a lot of the people arguing that these two women shouldn’t be competing with other women here on Lemmy keep arguing about sporting rules while ignoring the IOC’s saying that rules aren’t being violated.

      So much furor over two athletes in a sport which, I believe, has not even gotten to the medal stage yet. They may both be out by then.

      I wish the people so upset over these two would spend more time being upset about things like China doing a shitload of covert doping. That is an unfair advantage that they don’t seem to give two shits about. Because “man boxing women.”

    • SeaJ@lemm.ee
      1·
      3 months ago

      Not sure about Lin Yu-ting but Imame was born female. Algeria does not allow transitioning so even if she wanted to transition, she could not legally. People are freaking out because the loser complained that she was fighting a ‘man’ because she lost so bad. She let her guard down and then leaned into a right hook. Por course that is going to fuck you up.