Nato members have pledged their support for an “irreversible path” to future membership for Ukraine, as well as more aid.
While a formal timeline for it to join the military alliance was not agreed at a summit in Washington DC, the military alliance’s 32 members said they had “unwavering” support for Ukraine’s war effort.
Nato has also announced further integration with Ukraine’s military and members have committed €40bn ($43.3bn, £33.7bn) in aid in the next year, including F-16 fighter jets and air defence support.
The bloc’s Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said: “Support to Ukraine is not charity - it is in our own security interest.”
Now why would they fear Ukraine joining a non-confontational alliance?
And how do you rationalize the fear of your neighbour making new friends by physically attacking them?
I don’t know if you are a russian bot or actually conflicted so I’m giving you a chance to explain what you think Ukraine should really do. In my mind, bowing down to a bully is never ever the answer and support any aid they get in their purely defensive war.
I don’t think Russia sees NATO as non-confrontational.
I don’t think Russia sees it merely as a “neighbor making new friends,” I think they see it as a neighbor, that they feel culturally connected to, making alliances with their enemy.
I am not. I’ve never been to Russia, I don’t know any Russian people. I’m American, I’ve lived in the US my entire life. I’m just trying to look at things from Russia’s perspective, because I think that’s critical, regardless of how we proceed.
I am not against Ukraine defending itself from invasion, nor am I necessarily against them joining NATO. I completely understand why they would want to do that, and I would probably want to do the same. I simply want to find a solution that will result in the least possible loss of life and an end to the conflict as quickly as possible.
If Russia is so afraid of NATO attacking them, then why did they withdraw pretty much all troops from the Finnish border? There’s barely border guards there.
Try to empathize with the Russian people and not with the Russian state and things will make a lot more sense.
What makes you think I don’t empathize with the Russian people? The Russian state are the ones making the decisions so they are who we have to deal with. Neither I nor the Russian people have much control over that.
And why is that? Why don’t the russian federation people have any control on that? They should be able to get informed and vote, no?
Absolutely they should. I don’t know the best way to bring that about, but, yes, that would be ideal.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt then, mostly because I agree with you that the best solution is the one where the fewest amount of people die.
I think where we diverge is how to achieve this. From what we’ve seen so far, Ukraine surrendering would probably not end the war. At least long term. Russia would use the time to re-arm and retry. Even if they don’t, the people in these new russian territories would be poorly treated and potentially murdered, especially those disagreeing with the peace agreement. That is my honest opinion. Therefore, the only other ways are Russia going home or Ukraine beating them.
The first one isn’t happening, so we end up alternative three.
Do you agree or disagree with my assessment?
I think your assessment may very well be accurate, but I don’t think Russia is just going to go home, and if Ukraine does win the war, with the help of NATO member states, I don’t think that will just be the end for Russia, especially if they continue to feel threatened and encircled. They may try to strengthen their military, and their ties with China. It could result in another cold war. What do you think should be done to try and avoid that from happening?
Honestly, if another cold war is the outcome of us stepping up for what is right in this world, then I think it’s a better alternative than giving into any dicators demands.
Don’t get me wrong: I don’t want it, but the alternative is everlasting certainty for Putin and future cronies that attacking sovereign countries is totally fine as long as he has nukes.
So to answer your question: the general idea to avoid this is to make sure everybody knows the west wants no war, but we will not sit idly by and watch it unfold right on our doorstep. And we are strong enough to beat you if it comes to that.
You don’t need allways to fight the bully to make him stop. You just need to make sure he knows you will fight and he most likely will lose.
Well, I think the best way to promote peace is to not break the world up into the West and not the West, and for the two sides to not continue to mistrust and antagonize each other. I can’t honestly say I know how to achieve that, instead I can only say I hope that such a world can be brought about peacefully. Of course, what I hope for means precisely dick. What’s gonna happen is gonna happen, and I suppose that’s gonna be more war.
We tried that in Europe. We bought oil and gas en masse from Russia. Companies opened factories there. We thought that by showing them that cooperation is better than the cold war, we can all move forward.
Then they attacked Ukraine.
Honestly mate: your quest not to pick side is sort of understandable. The world feels like a crap place these days with wars, rising prices and political unrest. While I generally dislike painting the world in black and white, it is sometimes necessary to accept that some issues are. This is one of those times.
Russia viciously and brutally invaded and terrorise Ukraine and her people, and that is not right. Appeasing to their moronic demands is not an option anyone should even be considering after all the pain and suffering they have caused.
We don’t reward this kind of behaviour, ever. It only brings more pain down the road.
Thanks for the chat and have a great summer, mate.
I agree. My intent is not to defend Russia, I simply want the situation resolved as peacefully as possible. If war is necessary, then it’s necessary. I don’t like it, but it really doesn’t matter if I like it or not.