Which is your preferred messaging app? I just want some insights about these two.
You may share other messaging apps too.
Completely different use cases.
Matrix is shared interest groups.
Signal is for personal communication.
I actually prefer XMPP. It’s also less of a hassle to set up than Matrix and the protocol is much more mature. There are still issues, but it’s rather functional for audio and video calls (if you’re using a supported client).
Edit: For clients, I use Cheogram on Android and Profanity (which is a TUI) or DinoX (for calls) on Linux.
Matrix is open source and federated, end of the story.
I’ve come to distrust Matrix, the metadata leaking is one thing but then combine that with the fact that .org is basically the default server and you almost have to federate with it, and they were started as an Amdocs project before spinning off into “the matrix foundation,” and Amdocs is Israeli, and while I don’t have PROOF they’re connected with Mossad I’d rather not chance it.
Plus, the apps all sucked last I used them, Element was the best and it was still buggy as all hell, and the Linux app is just an electron wrapper, and it was too hard to use for most of my “normal” friends (I agree, they should get good, but they do not get good, what should I do hold 'em at gunpoint and install Fedora, my options are limited). And the rooms had such a bad CP spam problem they stopped them from being publically searchable, you (now still?) have to know the room’s addr to join. Even still, with that CP problem, it becomes hard to reccomend family/friends to make an account. I don’t want to see that, I don’t want them to have to see that, and I don’t want them to think I want to see that and judge me because of spam in the RasPi room because I’m the guy that recommended the app, I don’t need that in my life.
Signal requiring phone numbers is also not my favorite, and the single point of failure is not the best either. Better than Matrix imo, but still. Also last I used it they still supported SMS and when a contact would delete Signal without deleting their account, the message would still try to deliver through Signal instead of defaulting back to SMS, so I’d have to switch my default to Messenger every time I wanted to talk to them and back to Signal when I was done. That was annoying.
Now happily using Delta Chat, easy onboarding for “normals,” low (no?) metadata leaks, webXDC seems cool, p2p video/audio calling, multi-relay support for resiliency, groups (but anyone can kick anyone, they’re meant for known contacts or family more than matrix-like rooms), no discoverability so nobody gets your acct by just having your phone number or etc (so my friend doesn’t have to worry about their abusive ex finding them on it like on IG or Snapchat), due to those last two things it doesn’t seem to have the same CP problem as Matrix rooms, channels are pretty neat, you can share location for increments between 30min and 24hr, bunch of cool stuff!
Isn’t Signal a CIA honeypot?
The CIA financed Signal (I believe they stopped a few years ago), however that was never really secret. It also happened in simpler times, in the earlier days of internet and mobile phones. In general it’s quite plausible that the CIA just wanted a really secure comms system that people they wanted to undermine regimes could use.
Contrast this with how the FBI and the Australian feds bankrolled Anomphones, which they then used to read the communications of criminals. That was kept secret until they were ready to brag about it.
My understanding is that the CIA also funds TOR, because they want to use TOR.
Ehhhh idk, afaik jury’s still out on that, but imo “could be.”
That’s partly why I use Delta Chat instead actually. Only partly, but it makes the list.
Even still, gun to my head, I think I’m picking Signal over Matrix as far as who I trust a little more. Not that I trust either entirely, and DC I trust more than both of those, but there’s always the possibility of some vulnerability if not a full backdoor. At least DC is FOSS and decentralized, I honestly doubt there’s a “backdoor,” but never know who has a 0-day.
Only because nobody answered with this one:
IRC
Decentralized and an open protocol. Client setup to connect is not so straightforward, but it’s a one and done. Very robust.
I’m allergic to centralized communication schemes, though I do use signal to communicate with one person.
I want to research some of the other suggestions that have been brought up, so thank you for the post!
That’s new to me. Thanks!
Lmfao that’s funny, IRC is the oldest of them all.
I prefer matrix for two main reasons:
- I can host my own server (and I do)
- It’s not centralized
As a bonus it has briddes for almost anything you can think of, so I use the signal bridge.
Simplex
I use both. No, really.
If one’s intent is to connect with as many people as possible, having as many messaging/real chat apps as possible is a good idea (imo).
That’s why I have WA, DC, Stoat, Signal, Matrix and IRC.
I use matrix with a bunch of my friends to replace discord and and it is quite good. The main draw for me was the awesome client options like fluffy chat, commet, and sable.
Signal is more stable & simple to set up. So for its intended use, getting people to actually talk to me on it, it’s better.
Matrix is obviously better as a Discord replacement. It doesn’t require a phone number which is also good. Not centrally managed so easier to decouple from big tech corruption. So it is better in those ways.
I agree. Signal is easier to use and to get people switch to it since the UI/UX are vey similar to other big platforms.
Isn’t Signal a CIA honeypot?
No
Signal. Matrix was made by Israeli spyware company Amdocs and when an employee was asked about it after the split to a UK company they pretended like Amdocs wasn’t caught in multiple global spyware scandals already.
Matrix is literally an open standard, use a server and client written by people you trust, or write your own.
Signal is made by a private company and is completely closed source.
Signal is open source but it’s hosted centrally. So you’re trusting their server.
Matrix is a protocol it’s not hosted anywhere. But the primary developer and host instance now called Element.
But it being created and initially bankrolled by an Israeli spyware company known for creating backdoors, and the lead devs still refusing to acknowledge that doesn’t inspire me much more confidence.
If you want privacy SimpleX seems like better option than Matrix.
You can host a server which uses software not written by Element. Same for the client.
I don’t trust the Signal devs because I have no reason to. I don’t want to use anyone else’s servers unless I’m paying them or they’re paying me 😅
And I love swapping/trying new clients.
You glossed over the fact that it came from Israel’s intelligence-community. Its design is woeful–that’s the protocol, regardless of client or server implementation. The project reeks of a state-backed program to get ahead of the increasing desire for encryption in everyday communications. Yet encryption has always been an after thought within that program. All those bridges to funnel different protocols into the program.
So neither is the answer, I guess. We’re cooked.
For easy privacy the answer is Signal. If you want to put in effort then SimpleX or others seem better.
Matrix MIGHT be okay if you self host it, but I definitely wouldn’t trust the main Element hosted server. But the dev team sketches me out too hard so I’d just pick alternatives.
But they say Signal is centralized, and hosted in the US.
I feel uneasy about Signal being an app centralized in the USA, but it is the only one streamlined enough to be usable by non tech-savvy friends and family. I wonder if it will fall prey to Chat Control in Europe, so the time to explore alternatives will soon be upon us.
So far, I have heard of XMPP, Matrix, Delta chat and SimpleX. Never got friends to switch to XMPP or Matrix for more than one conversation, so I guess we’re just f*cked.
Me neither. In fact, all my friends and almost all people here are only using Messenger and Telegram.
- If you have a targeted group/peer need then whatever they are using or whatever you all decide right in the beginning - I’d suggest Matrix or some other decentralised alternative, definitely not Signal.
- Matrix had the huge opportunity to be “the messaging app” but they neither became good at corporate usage and definitely ended up sucking at personal usage. They started doing too many things, at once, and while completely ignoring the individual user.
- If you want a wider general acceptance then sadly Matrix is DoA. WhatsApp becomes a huge choice outside USA and China but it has started becoming shittier by the day and looking at who has become WhatsApp’s global head now, I don’t think it’s gonna get any better (check his last “app” or company’s screenshots and come here if you don’t end up vomiting). So Signal or maybe some other similar app. You are limited by societal trends and acceptance here, not the tech or finesse or privacy of an app.
- If you just want privacy and a simpler app, proven (at least so far), then well Signal it is, as much as I hate it for reasons they decided to make it a centralised messaging app and then stuffed crypto in it etc.
- If you have a targeted group/peer need then whatever they are using or whatever you all decide right in the beginning - I’d suggest Matrix or some other decentralised alternative, definitely not Signal.
I created this to help find active matrix rooms https://activematrixrooms.com/
Cool! Thanks.
I don’t use either, bcz I use simplex in my personal life. It is really quite great!
