Over 120,000 killed by America in Iraq and estimated over 1 million indirectly dead because of the invasion. An estimated over 200,000 Gazans killed by Israel (much more than the official numbers, as those pretty much stopped going up after Israel blew up the Hospitals in Gaza which is where the bodies were officially counted)
vs
Iranian star Parastoo Ahmadi reportedly sentenced to 74 lashes for singing without hijab
The Iranian “Regime” is so much less evil than the American “Regime” and the Israeli “Regime” that it’s not even comparable.
People aren’t rooting for the Iranian “Regime”, they’re rooting against the American and Israeli “Regimes”, same logic as we are told again and again by American Liberals for why people should vote Democrat because it’s the Lesser Evil to stop the greater one, only in this case the difference in evilness as measured by body county between these Regimes is far larger than even the difference in evilness Democrats and Republicans in the US.
It makes far more sense to root for the lesser evil “Regime” against the more evil “Regimes” in this case than it does to vote Democrat in the US to stop the Republicans because even the Republicans don’t just murder hundreds of thousands more and get millions killed as collateral damage more than the Democrats.
The Iranian “Regime” is so much less evil than the American “Regime” and the Israeli “Regime” that it’s not even comparable.
At least make an honest comparison when you say that.
Comparing decades of events by US and Israel to one event in Iran as if it’s not a brutal theocratic authoritarian regime, is very dishonest.
That’s not to say the US and Israel should’ve invaded, fuck no, but at least be honest about it.
Literally the only way to make just the Israeli “Regime” seem less murderous than the Iranian one is by cheery-picking a “from date” that excludes most of the Genocide in Gaza whilst including the recent violent repression in Iran and a “to date” that excludes Israel’s current invasion of Lebanon and the Israeli participation in attacking Iran.
Israel has been way more murderous than Iran in pretty much any time frame you chose within the last 5 decades unless you’re activelly cherry-picking start and end dates to make it seem otherwise.
As nasty as the Iranian Regime is, next to the Genocidal White Supremacist Regime in Israel they’re pussycats - their respective body counts aren’t even in the same dimension.
You are right when it comes to body count comparisons with the US, though, as the last big mass murdering done by the US ended in 2021 (Afghanistan) though the country activelly supported the Israeli Genocide in Gaza.
For the US the “is it the same Regime” logics applies, IMHO - have the political systems and general political stance when it comes to foreign intervention really changed for the better in the US. As far as I can tell, it has not. That being the case, then it makes sense to point at the past sins of the Regime in America even if from a decade or two ago and say “this is the kind of people they are” because that’s still how American political structures operate and that’s still how much the American Public cares about those the American Military murders abroad, same as it would make sense if for example the NAZIs were still in Government in Germany to keep pointing out at the Holocaust (which was almost a century ago) as an example of the kind of people the NAZIs are, but since the NAZIs are not in power in Germany and it’s an entirelly different “Regime” it makes no sense at all to point at the Holocaust as representative of the character of present day Germany and its Government.
So, has the US really changed when it comes to how much Americans (both in power and public opinion) care about the lives of those outside America or about American Militarism?
From the outside, it doesn’t at all look like it: America is still hyper-militarist, most of the American Public care very little about the lives of those abroad and both the last US Governments either supported mass killings abroad, most notably with Biden sending Israel 2000lb bombs - which have massive collateral damaga - to be used to bomb the denselly populate Gaza, and then Trump continued support for Israel, randomly droned boats of the South American coast and bombed Iran with such recklessnes and disregard to civilian lives that they let Grok choose targest and blew up a school full of children.
Please note that I’m not trying to defend Israel or the US at all, I’m not trying to disprove or deny their imperialistic and genocidal actions.
But don’t try to reduce Iran’s brutalities in order to make that point. It cheapens the discussion and makes it easier to ignore your actual point. That’s what you did in the comment I responded to.
The people coming here slandering as “Iran apologists” those who would rather that the nation which is both the least evil and the victim of this war won rather than the vastly most evil aggressor nations, and do so even using the very typical Manufacturing Consent technique of calling the Iranian Government a “Regime” whilst not doing the same for the governments of the more aggressor nations, are the ones doing all the “brutality reducing” - they’re literally misrepresenting a position which is against the by far most murderous of sides in this war as being instead a position of support for the government structure of the other side.
Doing so in the context of the news of a court decision in Iran which, whilst ridiculous, will not result in anybody getting killed, is just taking the piss, especially if you compare it with the workings of the judicial system in one of the opposing countries in this war, the US, were every day the police just in average kills 3 - 4 people.
That post stinks of Hasbara propaganda. It stinks of the kind of specious “argument” that warmongering Nationalists make against those who do not support the actions of their nation. (Curiously, if you look at the evolution of up-votes and down-votes to it, it “curiously” got a lot of upvotes upfront right around daytime in Tel-Aviv and is getting more downvotes since)
I replied to that and then you came and took umbrage at me pointing out how from all sides of that war, the most outrageously murderous is the one of the American and Israeli Regimes (which explains why people side with Iran in this War)
took umbrage at me pointing out how from all sides of that war, the most outrageously murderous is the one of the American and Israeli Regimes
As I tried to explain, I didn’t take umbrage at that. Again I am not disputing Israel’s or America’s brutality whatsoever. Nowhere am I saying I want America and Israel to win. In fact, I don’t. Fuck them. I want the Iranians to come out on top. I agree that they’re the lesser evil.
What I took issue with is your false equivalence of comparing decades worth of brutality of the American and Israeli regimes with 1 specific Iranian incident. You don’t need that kind of dishonesty to say that Americans and Israelis are worse.
Well, it would probably have been fairer to point out the peak of the brutality of the Iranian Government which seems to have been their recent violent suppression of demonstrations, but it’s unclear how many people actually got killed in it because the information we have about it here in the West is certainly tainted with propaganda (mainly American) so any number I quoted would almost certainly be wrong and an exageration and I didn’t really want to respond to what looked like a Hasbara post by quoting American or Israeli propaganda figures about Iran.
That said, even the largest number I saw of persons killed by the Iranian Authorities in their recent violent crackdown - 35,000 - is less than the number of people officially confirmed by Palestinian Authorities of those killed by Israel alone, in Gaza alone in just the first 3 months of their latest Genocide: even what is almost certainly the wildest exaggeration from their enemies about the how murderous the Iranian Government is pale in comparison with how murderous the US and Israel are.
Nice use of logical fallacies. Whataboutism and straw man in one comment.
But let’s stick to the facts:
2019:
On 23 December, Reuters reported that a death toll provided by three unnamed Iranian interior ministry officials was “about 1,500” including “at least 17 teenagers and about 400 women”.
2022:
At least 551 people, including 68 minors, had been killed as a result of the government’s intervention in the protests, as of 15 September 2023.
2026:
The Iranian government has acknowledged more than 3,000 dead, and the US-based organisation HRANA (Human Rights Activists News Agency), whose figures have been reliable during previous crackdowns, says it has verified more than 6,000 dead and has more than 17,000 more recorded deaths under investigation, giving a possible total of about 22,000. Other estimates from doctors based outside Iran range up to 33,000 or more.
And then we haven’t even talked about the terrorist attacks by Iran’s proxies.
So no, dear Iran fanboy. They’re not much less evil.
Sure mate, Israel and the US are not at all the most murderous nations on the face of the planet of this century to the point that a fucking Theocracy are vritably pussycats in comparison, and instead it must be me being an “Iran fanboy”.
That very tall pile of bones you stand on is not a moral high ground.
Ahh yes, mr mass murder apologist. Let’s compare how many people they have killed. Because it’s not human lives we’re talking about but data points to win our meaningless internet discussion.
Somehow I don’t think I’m the one dying on a hill made out of skeletons….
There are no good guys in this war will always be true, no matter how much you try to twist it.
vs
The Iranian “Regime” is so much less evil than the American “Regime” and the Israeli “Regime” that it’s not even comparable.
People aren’t rooting for the Iranian “Regime”, they’re rooting against the American and Israeli “Regimes”, same logic as we are told again and again by American Liberals for why people should vote Democrat because it’s the Lesser Evil to stop the greater one, only in this case the difference in evilness as measured by body county between these Regimes is far larger than even the difference in evilness Democrats and Republicans in the US.
It makes far more sense to root for the lesser evil “Regime” against the more evil “Regimes” in this case than it does to vote Democrat in the US to stop the Republicans because even the Republicans don’t just murder hundreds of thousands more and get millions killed as collateral damage more than the Democrats.
At least make an honest comparison when you say that. Comparing decades of events by US and Israel to one event in Iran as if it’s not a brutal theocratic authoritarian regime, is very dishonest.
That’s not to say the US and Israel should’ve invaded, fuck no, but at least be honest about it.
The Israelis just shot a 3 year old in the head
Yes, I’m not disputing any of that.
What are you saying
An American cop just
killedmurdered a 1yo in Mississippi a few days ago.Really struggling to find the difference here.
Yeah but have you considered that Iran is brutal and theocratic? What’s that you say?
Literally the only way to make just the Israeli “Regime” seem less murderous than the Iranian one is by cheery-picking a “from date” that excludes most of the Genocide in Gaza whilst including the recent violent repression in Iran and a “to date” that excludes Israel’s current invasion of Lebanon and the Israeli participation in attacking Iran.
Israel has been way more murderous than Iran in pretty much any time frame you chose within the last 5 decades unless you’re activelly cherry-picking start and end dates to make it seem otherwise.
As nasty as the Iranian Regime is, next to the Genocidal White Supremacist Regime in Israel they’re pussycats - their respective body counts aren’t even in the same dimension.
You are right when it comes to body count comparisons with the US, though, as the last big mass murdering done by the US ended in 2021 (Afghanistan) though the country activelly supported the Israeli Genocide in Gaza.
For the US the “is it the same Regime” logics applies, IMHO - have the political systems and general political stance when it comes to foreign intervention really changed for the better in the US. As far as I can tell, it has not. That being the case, then it makes sense to point at the past sins of the Regime in America even if from a decade or two ago and say “this is the kind of people they are” because that’s still how American political structures operate and that’s still how much the American Public cares about those the American Military murders abroad, same as it would make sense if for example the NAZIs were still in Government in Germany to keep pointing out at the Holocaust (which was almost a century ago) as an example of the kind of people the NAZIs are, but since the NAZIs are not in power in Germany and it’s an entirelly different “Regime” it makes no sense at all to point at the Holocaust as representative of the character of present day Germany and its Government.
So, has the US really changed when it comes to how much Americans (both in power and public opinion) care about the lives of those outside America or about American Militarism?
From the outside, it doesn’t at all look like it: America is still hyper-militarist, most of the American Public care very little about the lives of those abroad and both the last US Governments either supported mass killings abroad, most notably with Biden sending Israel 2000lb bombs - which have massive collateral damaga - to be used to bomb the denselly populate Gaza, and then Trump continued support for Israel, randomly droned boats of the South American coast and bombed Iran with such recklessnes and disregard to civilian lives that they let Grok choose targest and blew up a school full of children.
Please note that I’m not trying to defend Israel or the US at all, I’m not trying to disprove or deny their imperialistic and genocidal actions.
But don’t try to reduce Iran’s brutalities in order to make that point. It cheapens the discussion and makes it easier to ignore your actual point. That’s what you did in the comment I responded to.
The people coming here slandering as “Iran apologists” those who would rather that the nation which is both the least evil and the victim of this war won rather than the vastly most evil aggressor nations, and do so even using the very typical Manufacturing Consent technique of calling the Iranian Government a “Regime” whilst not doing the same for the governments of the more aggressor nations, are the ones doing all the “brutality reducing” - they’re literally misrepresenting a position which is against the by far most murderous of sides in this war as being instead a position of support for the government structure of the other side.
Doing so in the context of the news of a court decision in Iran which, whilst ridiculous, will not result in anybody getting killed, is just taking the piss, especially if you compare it with the workings of the judicial system in one of the opposing countries in this war, the US, were every day the police just in average kills 3 - 4 people.
That post stinks of Hasbara propaganda. It stinks of the kind of specious “argument” that warmongering Nationalists make against those who do not support the actions of their nation. (Curiously, if you look at the evolution of up-votes and down-votes to it, it “curiously” got a lot of upvotes upfront right around daytime in Tel-Aviv and is getting more downvotes since)
I replied to that and then you came and took umbrage at me pointing out how from all sides of that war, the most outrageously murderous is the one of the American and Israeli Regimes (which explains why people side with Iran in this War)
As I tried to explain, I didn’t take umbrage at that. Again I am not disputing Israel’s or America’s brutality whatsoever. Nowhere am I saying I want America and Israel to win. In fact, I don’t. Fuck them. I want the Iranians to come out on top. I agree that they’re the lesser evil.
What I took issue with is your false equivalence of comparing decades worth of brutality of the American and Israeli regimes with 1 specific Iranian incident. You don’t need that kind of dishonesty to say that Americans and Israelis are worse.
Well, it would probably have been fairer to point out the peak of the brutality of the Iranian Government which seems to have been their recent violent suppression of demonstrations, but it’s unclear how many people actually got killed in it because the information we have about it here in the West is certainly tainted with propaganda (mainly American) so any number I quoted would almost certainly be wrong and an exageration and I didn’t really want to respond to what looked like a Hasbara post by quoting American or Israeli propaganda figures about Iran.
That said, even the largest number I saw of persons killed by the Iranian Authorities in their recent violent crackdown - 35,000 - is less than the number of people officially confirmed by Palestinian Authorities of those killed by Israel alone, in Gaza alone in just the first 3 months of their latest Genocide: even what is almost certainly the wildest exaggeration from their enemies about the how murderous the Iranian Government is pale in comparison with how murderous the US and Israel are.
Nice use of logical fallacies. Whataboutism and straw man in one comment.
But let’s stick to the facts:
2019:
2022:
2026:
And then we haven’t even talked about the terrorist attacks by Iran’s proxies.
So no, dear Iran fanboy. They’re not much less evil.
Sure mate, Israel and the US are not at all the most murderous nations on the face of the planet of this century to the point that a fucking Theocracy are vritably pussycats in comparison, and instead it must be me being an “Iran fanboy”.
That very tall pile of bones you stand on is not a moral high ground.
Ahh yes, mr mass murder apologist. Let’s compare how many people they have killed. Because it’s not human lives we’re talking about but data points to win our meaningless internet discussion.
Somehow I don’t think I’m the one dying on a hill made out of skeletons….
There are no good guys in this war will always be true, no matter how much you try to twist it.