Do we want to? Yes, I think we all do. However, we also don’t want to die, and assaulting federal buildings is how you die. Unless you’re Maga assaulting the US capital building, of course. Then you get presidential pardons. But if we do it, ICE will shoot us, there’s no doubt in my mind.
People are already dying, families at that. We know what happens when we have more numbers and we use them. Why we continue to allow this to happen is beyond me. Yet all I can get organized is the same 5 people to take action.
Individually attacking ice agents or facilities won’t stop this either though.
Like I don’t know what I can do to stop it. It’s outside of my power individually.
Edit: I feel like this came off as a bit disempowering. There are many important things we can be doing to throw sand in the gears of fascism, and while it may or may not stop it, it will still probably save lives. But I just want to express that going to individual Americans and shaming them because they haven’t personally put a stop to this is very unhelpful.
Organization at this point is important. Find common minded people, make defensive pacts. Keep eyes and ears out for each other. Purchase firearms and train with them along with proper permits and such. Grow your group.
Yes, I agree. Unfortunately the response in my city is not as well organized as I would like but I’m trying my best to be as involved as I can. A friend and I are also gathering a group of activated neighbors and planning to have regular meals together to discuss what else we can do.
So those are some ideas for folks looking for actions they can take. Look up what org is doing legal observing in your area and sign up. And the usual stuff like show up for protests, etc.
And honestly this scares me and I have a strong commitment to nonviolence but we may be at a point where we need to start training and organizing militias too. But I would be careful and very selective in this because there is a risk it could make the situation worse if people do not move carefully and strategically. I disagree with a lot of lemmings that armed conflict is a good solution to most problems but there may come a point where we fight back or we die and we need to be ready for that possibility. I don’t think that day is today but it looks closer every day that passes.
Good on ya. You’re having better luck than I did unfortunately. I couldn’t even get my local friends interested in it. So I just offer advice online to folks, talk about the best thing they can do right now, and recommend reading up on the various resistance groups during WWII.
Yeah I have the same issue with much of my friend group. They just want to look away and focus on their lives. Sometimes you have to make new friends who are willing to do something. I find it hard but I just try to bring it up when I can and collect those folks who do express interest in doing something.
And you never know. I saw a former coworker last night at our ICE facility that I would have clocked as totally apolitical. Sometimes people are afraid to say how they really feel because it doesn’t feel socially acceptable. And more and more people are starting to wake up to this.
Mate, if you know how to organize a hundred million people from an area as large as the US, I’m all ears. I sure don’t. I don’t know if anyone does. We have small groups doing what they can, but it’s not enough. I agree with you, we need collective action, but I’m at a loss for how to effect that.
I also understand the general frustration, both from inside the US and out, but these thinly veiled suggestions that we should go attack ICE agents or start rioting or whatever else that keep getting thrown around on Lemmy and elsewhere are not helpful, either. Yes, we’re all frustrated, but taking brash, drastic action without the organization behind it will not solve anything.
I don’t know if it’s more frustrating when it comes from folks inside the US or out. If someone is inside the US and calling for frankly suicidal acts, and yet are not performing those acts themself, they’re hypocrites, plain and simple. If someone is outside the US and calling for those acts… all I can say is, you aren’t helping at all, and if you aren’t willing to help organize or give us some ideas on how to organize, kindly keep those opinions to yourselves.
I understand but I’m only in control of my own actions. I can’t make the rest of America do anything they don’t want to. So if you want me to do something it needs to be framed in terms of what actions I can take–even if those actions are meant to be part of a collective effort.
Maybe so but that’s not easy to achieve. I think social stigma, public humiliation, etc. is the easiest way to achieve this. Definitely support investigators who are compiling information on them.
Killing just 1 healthcare CEO sent waves through that class of people. Maybe 1 instance of violence on ICE would not fix things but if Americans make ICE fear guerilla hit & run tactics, you could have ICE as scared as the guys clearing tunnels in Vietnam
Your country is already doing the same tactics. Why aren’t you out there doing what you think needs to be done there? Your right wing is building up to be the US.
My assessment is that isn’t going to happen. Vietnam worked because people were largely united against an invading force. America is the opposite.
I don’t think Luigi achieved much with what he did. He’s now in jail and UnitedHealth just hires someone else to do the same job. It’s also different because his act was not perceived as more personal than political. And it’s a lot harder for ordinary Americans to empathize with a rich ceo than working class ICE agents. A lot of Americans are waking up to the fact that ICE is the enemy but it’s still a minority. The reality is a lot of Americans personally identify with law enforcement and will feel attacked when they are attacked. This creates more reaction, violence and division when we really need people to be united.
Propaganda of the deed tried and failed 100 years ago and I don’t think things are too different today.
I am not proposing doing nothing; I am proposing ignoring and also calling out people who are making frankly bad suggestions, like joining a disorganized riot against a federal building staffed by murderers.
Do we want to? Yes, I think we all do. However, we also don’t want to die, and assaulting federal buildings is how you die. Unless you’re Maga assaulting the US capital building, of course. Then you get presidential pardons. But if we do it, ICE will shoot us, there’s no doubt in my mind.
People are already dying, families at that. We know what happens when we have more numbers and we use them. Why we continue to allow this to happen is beyond me. Yet all I can get organized is the same 5 people to take action.
‘Why we continue to allow this to happen is beyond me”
“I can only get 5 people organized”
I might have found part of the reason.
You are not wrong. Everyone is scared. Idk where all the guns went that are supposedly in this country.
Currently the NRA is suing themselves…
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/national-rifle-association-sues-nra-foundation-federal-court-rcna252465
There will be 100x more people dying if it continues.
Individually attacking ice agents or facilities won’t stop this either though.
Like I don’t know what I can do to stop it. It’s outside of my power individually.
Edit: I feel like this came off as a bit disempowering. There are many important things we can be doing to throw sand in the gears of fascism, and while it may or may not stop it, it will still probably save lives. But I just want to express that going to individual Americans and shaming them because they haven’t personally put a stop to this is very unhelpful.
Organization at this point is important. Find common minded people, make defensive pacts. Keep eyes and ears out for each other. Purchase firearms and train with them along with proper permits and such. Grow your group.
Yes, I agree. Unfortunately the response in my city is not as well organized as I would like but I’m trying my best to be as involved as I can. A friend and I are also gathering a group of activated neighbors and planning to have regular meals together to discuss what else we can do.
So those are some ideas for folks looking for actions they can take. Look up what org is doing legal observing in your area and sign up. And the usual stuff like show up for protests, etc.
And honestly this scares me and I have a strong commitment to nonviolence but we may be at a point where we need to start training and organizing militias too. But I would be careful and very selective in this because there is a risk it could make the situation worse if people do not move carefully and strategically. I disagree with a lot of lemmings that armed conflict is a good solution to most problems but there may come a point where we fight back or we die and we need to be ready for that possibility. I don’t think that day is today but it looks closer every day that passes.
Good on ya. You’re having better luck than I did unfortunately. I couldn’t even get my local friends interested in it. So I just offer advice online to folks, talk about the best thing they can do right now, and recommend reading up on the various resistance groups during WWII.
Yeah I have the same issue with much of my friend group. They just want to look away and focus on their lives. Sometimes you have to make new friends who are willing to do something. I find it hard but I just try to bring it up when I can and collect those folks who do express interest in doing something.
And you never know. I saw a former coworker last night at our ICE facility that I would have clocked as totally apolitical. Sometimes people are afraid to say how they really feel because it doesn’t feel socially acceptable. And more and more people are starting to wake up to this.
Individual is the key word here — Americans are incapable of escaping the individuality. Collective action is seen internally as an impossibility.
Mate, if you know how to organize a hundred million people from an area as large as the US, I’m all ears. I sure don’t. I don’t know if anyone does. We have small groups doing what they can, but it’s not enough. I agree with you, we need collective action, but I’m at a loss for how to effect that.
I also understand the general frustration, both from inside the US and out, but these thinly veiled suggestions that we should go attack ICE agents or start rioting or whatever else that keep getting thrown around on Lemmy and elsewhere are not helpful, either. Yes, we’re all frustrated, but taking brash, drastic action without the organization behind it will not solve anything.
I don’t know if it’s more frustrating when it comes from folks inside the US or out. If someone is inside the US and calling for frankly suicidal acts, and yet are not performing those acts themself, they’re hypocrites, plain and simple. If someone is outside the US and calling for those acts… all I can say is, you aren’t helping at all, and if you aren’t willing to help organize or give us some ideas on how to organize, kindly keep those opinions to yourselves.
Join those small groups and participate. You don’t need to be the organizer yourself; there are plenty of other roles that need to be played.
I understand but I’m only in control of my own actions. I can’t make the rest of America do anything they don’t want to. So if you want me to do something it needs to be framed in terms of what actions I can take–even if those actions are meant to be part of a collective effort.
Yes, it was not intended as an allegation, just an observation!
Collective action sounds like scary socialism to Americans.
People should be afraid to work for ICE.
Maybe so but that’s not easy to achieve. I think social stigma, public humiliation, etc. is the easiest way to achieve this. Definitely support investigators who are compiling information on them.
Get out to a local protest with the intention of making contact with political organizers.
You can’t do anything on your own, find a local group that is making plans and help with that.
Killing just 1 healthcare CEO sent waves through that class of people. Maybe 1 instance of violence on ICE would not fix things but if Americans make ICE fear guerilla hit & run tactics, you could have ICE as scared as the guys clearing tunnels in Vietnam
Are you American? Cuz it’s super easy to tell others to commit suicide.
The IRA brought one of the most powerful governments to the negotiating table and they weren’t nearly as armed as the American people.
No I’m Canadian and many of us fear we will have to rely on the same tactics if your country follows through on their threats to annex us.
Your country is already doing the same tactics. Why aren’t you out there doing what you think needs to be done there? Your right wing is building up to be the US.
Do you have a source for a Canadian force acting like ICE? Our right wing is building up. Thats why they didn’t get elected.
That’s what building up means, they’re not there yet. Now’s the time for you to save Canada, get to it.
We don’t discuss our tactics. They make geneva conventions once they know them.
We’re burning the place for Sure this time, though, if we can get all the way to Florida.
My assessment is that isn’t going to happen. Vietnam worked because people were largely united against an invading force. America is the opposite.
I don’t think Luigi achieved much with what he did. He’s now in jail and UnitedHealth just hires someone else to do the same job. It’s also different because his act was not perceived as more personal than political. And it’s a lot harder for ordinary Americans to empathize with a rich ceo than working class ICE agents. A lot of Americans are waking up to the fact that ICE is the enemy but it’s still a minority. The reality is a lot of Americans personally identify with law enforcement and will feel attacked when they are attacked. This creates more reaction, violence and division when we really need people to be united.
Propaganda of the deed tried and failed 100 years ago and I don’t think things are too different today.
Sometimes the threat of not doing something is worse than it is of doing something.
I am not proposing doing nothing; I am proposing ignoring and also calling out people who are making frankly bad suggestions, like joining a disorganized riot against a federal building staffed by murderers.
It is pretty clear not ALL of you do.