None of these mention rape, we all know you just threw that one in there to bolster your “the enemy is animals who cannot be reasoned with” claim. Same as Israel did with Hamas: pretend the other side is made of of mindless monsters so that anything your side does, no matter how fascist, is part of an existential struggle and therefore totally justified.
I appreciate the olive branch, but this is a thought-terminating cliche that serves to obscure understanding rather than advance it. What does wrong mean in the context of a war? A war is the end result of a series of actions and reactions that have no relation to what we think of as right or wrong. When two chemicals react violently with each other, which one is “wrong”?
All I am saying is, you don’t have to pick a side and defend their actions. Which you so often see in comments. “Well this is justified because they did X”
You can and should be critical of both sides.
Both have the power to stop the bloodshed.
Bro, lemmy is overrun by this shit… It’s so disheartening. I just got banned from posting in memes for arguing that Ukraine’s far right problem is as nuanced as the US’s… Russian propaganda is a fucking cancer on the world.
Ukraine has institutionalized fascists that uphold Bandera, that banned all left parties, dissolve unions and privatize everything for western capital (textbook facism)
Putins Russia is right wing but doesn’t have the same amount institutionalized facism
I don’t subscribe to your great man theory understanding of politics. If Putin would suddenly decide to use the financial system to take the money and leave, or use it to feed the poor he’d get replaced by the Russian oligarchs
All we can do is push back with facts. Invariably, their arguments devolve into whataboutism and name-calling because they know there aren’t any facts that back up their bullshit.
As long as they’re the ones crashing out, we come out of those interactions looking better than they do.
You seem to think the word ‘facts’ means to call anyone who demonstrates wrongthink a pernicious scheming (((russian))) so I don’t think you look as good as you think you do
That a patch makes the massacre of women and children excusable? Somehow a piece of fabric makes it okay to kill civilians?
IF that guy is actually wearing that patch, fine. Prosecute him. Doesn’t excuse, justify, or invalidate the MOUNTAIN of evidence of Russian war crimes.
Nobody has stated that Russia doesn’t have Nazis. The difference is that the Nazis in Russia aren’t at the levers of power in the government, nationalists are, while in Kiev the Banderites folded in Nazis officially and use fascist imagery at a state level.
Groups like Azov have been folded in officially. The Kiev regime upholds Stepan Bandera and uses likeness for propaganda. Nazis infest Ukrainian leadership:
The east supported Yanukovych, and that’s why the far-right Banderites couping him kicked off the war.
You see comrade, when they take out of context screenshots it’s good. But when you document Nazis in Russia that Nazis support, that’s false revolution and you must be purged.
I am asserting that simping for an entire government of Hitler-worshipping goose steppers just because the news told you to does not, in fact, make you look better than us
“It’s just a piece of fabric bro! How dare you invade Germany Ukraine!”
If a nazi army is massacring thousands of people, they should be stopped, right?
“Oh but Russia-”
Cease your whataboutism, you useful idiot. The Russian intervention in Ukraine has been characterized by an aversion to civillian casualties unseen in modern wars, magnitudes less than the US invasion of Iraq, for example. My Arma buddy in Odessa still has power, heating, clean water and internet, four things the RF could and would easily remove if they were actually waging a war against Ukraine’s people and not it’s fascist US puppet government. You have to pretend otherwise though, you have to pretend they’re doing what Ukraine’s ally Israel is doing, because that’s the only way you can justify cheering for seig heiling, terror bombing, raping, torturing, for-the-glory-of-the-white-race fucking neo nazis. Your willful ignorance is pathetic, and one day you and every other morally vacuous imperialist will pretend you never supported this, just like every other nazi supporter after they start and lose a war of ethnic cleansing. Time is a flat circle.
“Independent Legal Analysis of the Russian Federation’s Breaches of the Genocide Convention in Ukraine and the Duty to Prevent”
‘Знищують за те, що українці’. Правники та дипломати наголошують на геноциді в Бучі, " They are being destroyed because they are Ukrainians"
“Russia’s Bucha ‘Facts’ Versus the Evidence”
“Russia/Ukraine: Invasion of Ukraine is an act of aggression and human rights catastrophe”
“War crimes, indiscriminate attacks on infrastructure, systematic and widespread torture show disregard for civilians, says UN Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine”
None of these mention rape, we all know you just threw that one in there to bolster your “the enemy is animals who cannot be reasoned with” claim. Same as Israel did with Hamas: pretend the other side is made of of mindless monsters so that anything your side does, no matter how fascist, is part of an existential struggle and therefore totally justified.
Chill both sides can be wrong, that is normally the case in war.
I appreciate the olive branch, but this is a thought-terminating cliche that serves to obscure understanding rather than advance it. What does wrong mean in the context of a war? A war is the end result of a series of actions and reactions that have no relation to what we think of as right or wrong. When two chemicals react violently with each other, which one is “wrong”?
All I am saying is, you don’t have to pick a side and defend their actions. Which you so often see in comments. “Well this is justified because they did X” You can and should be critical of both sides. Both have the power to stop the bloodshed.
Bro, lemmy is overrun by this shit… It’s so disheartening. I just got banned from posting in memes for arguing that Ukraine’s far right problem is as nuanced as the US’s… Russian propaganda is a fucking cancer on the world.
Literally saying out loud you got banned for doing nazi apologia and acting like people should be outraged for your cause
Lemmy is indeed fucking overrun with this shit
I’m not apologizing for nazis. The fuck are you talking about?
Listen you need to shut the fuck up about the nazis running the country I am doing war crime apologia for because
I t ’ s C o m p l i c a t e d
OMG FUCK YOU SAYING I’M DEFENDING NAZIS
and scene
Just like Israel! It’s c o m p l I c a t e d! But anyway have I told you how
HamasRussia is worse??You’re right, which is why I want both of them to lose.
Lemmy was created by communists, the communists have been here since the start of Lemmy.
Based mods. And fuck off if you’re trying to normalize facism
Fuck fascism.
Ukraine is not fascist… Putin’s Russia is…
Ukraine has institutionalized fascists that uphold Bandera, that banned all left parties, dissolve unions and privatize everything for western capital (textbook facism)
Putins Russia is right wing but doesn’t have the same amount institutionalized facism
Russia’s entire financial system goes through one man. That’s the definition of fascism…
I don’t subscribe to your great man theory understanding of politics. If Putin would suddenly decide to use the financial system to take the money and leave, or use it to feed the poor he’d get replaced by the Russian oligarchs
I don’t think we’ve had enough of a discussion for you to know my political theory. Sus canned response. Take care.
What do you think this is?
All we can do is push back with facts. Invariably, their arguments devolve into whataboutism and name-calling because they know there aren’t any facts that back up their bullshit.
As long as they’re the ones crashing out, we come out of those interactions looking better than they do.
You seem to think the word ‘facts’ means to call anyone who demonstrates wrongthink a pernicious scheming (((russian))) so I don’t think you look as good as you think you do
Soooo, what are you asserting by this photo?
That a patch makes the massacre of women and children excusable? Somehow a piece of fabric makes it okay to kill civilians?
IF that guy is actually wearing that patch, fine. Prosecute him. Doesn’t excuse, justify, or invalidate the MOUNTAIN of evidence of Russian war crimes.
Your whataboutism is utterly staggering.
You seem to think it gives the people who wear it permission
Whataboutism is when you talk about the thing we’re talking about and not the thing I’m trying to divert to
It’s not just a meaningless mouth noise I use to stop having to engage. I’m a real person not an npc
RUSSIAN
RUSSIAN
RUSSIAN
RUSSIAN
RUSSIAN
Nobody has stated that Russia doesn’t have Nazis. The difference is that the Nazis in Russia aren’t at the levers of power in the government, nationalists are, while in Kiev the Banderites folded in Nazis officially and use fascist imagery at a state level.
From davel’s compilation, again:
Groups like Azov have been folded in officially. The Kiev regime upholds Stepan Bandera and uses likeness for propaganda. Nazis infest Ukrainian leadership:
The east supported Yanukovych, and that’s why the far-right Banderites couping him kicked off the war.
OHHHH, so now your Nazis aren’t as bad as their Nazis?
You need a hand hauling those goalposts around?
use words
They said “Russian,” that’s a word. Not really a point tho.
You see comrade, when they take out of context screenshots it’s good. But when you document Nazis in Russia that Nazis support, that’s false revolution and you must be purged.
“I’m a real person not an NPC!”
Someone sounds upset. I would imagine the cognitive dissonance of trying to defend genocide gets pretty stressful after a while.
You have my sympathies.
my parting shot is about your lack of willingness to engage in good faith
your paring shot is just weepy passive aggression
we are not the same
Thank the fucking gods for that. I have an intact set of morals and ethics.
It probably does, luckily you won’t have to defend nazis for too much longer
Libs be like “Everything is genocide except for actual genocide, which is c o m p l I c a t e d”
Free Palestine
Sorry, but you don’t get to rope in a separate conflict like you have a moral high ground because you support Palestine. So do I.
Turns out, we can agree on one issue while being diametrically opposed on another.
Aren’t humans…complicated.
And you were accusing other people of having nothing but whataboutism and name-calling
I am asserting that simping for an entire government of Hitler-worshipping goose steppers just because the news told you to does not, in fact, make you look better than us
You responded to evidence of Ukrainian Nazis by deflecting to Russia, and then you accuse other people of whataboutism
“It’s just a piece of fabric bro! How dare you invade
GermanyUkraine!”If a nazi army is massacring thousands of people, they should be stopped, right?
“Oh but Russia-”
Cease your whataboutism, you useful idiot. The Russian intervention in Ukraine has been characterized by an aversion to civillian casualties unseen in modern wars, magnitudes less than the US invasion of Iraq, for example. My Arma buddy in Odessa still has power, heating, clean water and internet, four things the RF could and would easily remove if they were actually waging a war against Ukraine’s people and not it’s fascist US puppet government. You have to pretend otherwise though, you have to pretend they’re doing what Ukraine’s ally Israel is doing, because that’s the only way you can justify cheering for seig heiling, terror bombing, raping, torturing, for-the-glory-of-the-white-race fucking neo nazis. Your willful ignorance is pathetic, and one day you and every other morally vacuous imperialist will pretend you never supported this, just like every other nazi supporter after they start and lose a war of ethnic cleansing. Time is a flat circle.