I wasn’t burdened by the curse that is awareness before I was born, and hence now as a result of this awareness, I am scared.
We are not cursed to know, we are blessed! We are a fantastic arrangement of atoms that so happen to be arranged into people instead of rocks!
We are, at the end of the day, infinitely small chunks of the Universe able to see, experince, know, and look back into ourselves!
I may be hammered, and the world is in an especially frightening place at the moment, but damn is it good to have my atoms arranged into a person instead of a tree
I did not choose to be here and I resent that there are expectations put upon me when I wasn’t the reason I am here now.
I also resent that I was born just to die one day.
It is also fundamentally horrifying that so many people are born into painful awful experiences and then die, with that being more or less mostly all they knew while alive. And that some people live happy lives on its own doesn’t justify the horror in my eyes at all.
That said, I wish I could be drunk right now but I’m at work.
I’m not afraid, I’m annoyed. I’ll never get to finish my unfinished books. >:(
Or my Steam library.
I had nothing to lose before I was born. There is the difference.
And there’s nothing that you can do to keep from losing what you have.
Acceptance is the way to a happy life.
I’m happy. I’m just pointing out that there is a difference.
Because I forgot what it was like
Can’t forget something that doesn’t exist.
It did but you wasn’t aware of it at the time
I’m not afraid of dying. I’m afraid of the part before that.
Same, let’s try and make that bit before that less shit, hey?
About 22 years ago or so, after not taking psilocybe mushrooms for a couple years, fasting for 24 hours, I took an uncounted tens of grams of dried, fine-powdered, strong psilocybe semilanceata, hot, in just lemon juice, and chugged that pint of thick mushroom super-lemony brew down as fast as i could. It started coming on FAST and STRONG. Ran the 3 strides to the bathroom sink with need to purge, which didn’t last long nor purge much of it… clinging to the sink as I slumped down, with the trip immensity roaring at the doors bursting in at all the seams, I tried to steady myself, I meditatively focused on a drop of water, empathising with it likewise clinging to the underside of the sink. I empathised my way instantly to know where every molecule, and every atom, of the water in there, had ever been, and it was a short jump from there to realise I could do that with everything. My experience is that every atom, every subatomic particle, have omnidirectional infinite sense of the entire cosmos… and this was only in the beginning seconds of the hours long trip, the ability to see behind things, to know from every perspective, everybody, all time, all times, all dimensions, all realms, all places, all interacting potentials… I cant speak to it really, only to say I remember I did experience it. Cannot take it all back with you.
First exchange with other people after I came out of the toilet, friends had come around, one asked “how was it?”, and with it all still being fresh, the immensity of having experienced omniscience, sought to offer what I thought was the most beautiful thing of it all… I said, with all glowing reverie “I know death”. The look of horror on the poor dear’s face though. Ho ho ho.
But yeah, get that… we mere mortals, many, all around, can experience omniscience.
And many are, and ever have. Say hi.
If you know you know
This strangely made me feel a better about the concept of death.
Sometimes I think about it and fall in a few seconds of existential dread. But this kinda…makes it make sense?
It brought me some comfort too.
Because it was terrifying to be in a state of nonexistence. Thinking about not having what i currently have or even the fact that I’m very much likely not even going to have a state of being where i can even remember the things i had done in my life is truly fucking terrifying to me.
I’m not afraid of death. I’m afraid of dying
Came to say the same thing. Dying sounds painful, even in most of the best case scenarios
If I knew for a fact that I was going to die instantly, without even knowing it happened, I’d be worried about how my loved ones would feel, but okay with it as far as I’m concerned.
The previous billions of years of void was a grandiose buildup to the world’s largest nothing-burger, followed by an eternity of void again.
I have never experienced unending nothingness, only noted the nothingness after it was over
That’s a good point, though I think it’s also fair to say that you won’t experience unending nothingness after death from that perspective, either. I can see how coming to accept that the world existed before our experience began could help one confront the world will continue to exist after our experience has ended.
Because, now that i aquired conciusness, i dont want to lose it. i dont want to re experience nothingness. ffs id rather suffer for eternity than not live at all.
if religion wasnt so unbelievable id probably be religious. but alas i just have to hope that i am wrong in my understanding that there is no afterlife
You didn’t acquire consciousness, you acquired a human life.
Without a brain and no small amount of power (20% of your calorie count at rest on average, less when jogging, more when doing the calculus) the age of the universe goes by instantly. You don’t track time.
You also don’t track heat or pain, or memories good or bad. You don’t contemplate your trials and tribulations. You could be in the core of the sun at over a million degrees Celsius and not feel a thing or care how you got there.
The universe has been around for thirteen billion years, and will be around for even longer, and we only get this moment. And then it’s gone.
I’m looking forward to the nothingness, the first 14billion years was nice enough. It’s the time between everyday life and nothingness that worries me.
Just had a friend die of a heart attack while working in construction with his friends. Didn’t make it to the hospital.
That’s how I want to go. Just times up one day.
So sorry for your loss. You’re right - your friend is “fine” now. It’s the people we leave behind that can have a hard time with it.
Thanks
It’s not the nothingness, it’s how you get to the nothingness that sucks.
Idk, sounds kinda scary. Idk what it was like before, because I lacked consciousness to experience it. And the idea that it all ends, back to nothingness forever. We live a few years. Pretty much nothing, if we consider the forever before, and the forever after our existence.
It’s something I recall fearing as a kid, due to the scary unknown. Glad to have enjoyed a decade of bliss. Too bad the fear has come back to haunt me. It’s not constant, though. Sometimes it comes, outta nowhere. Real strong. Not fun. But I don’t live day to day in fear.
The thing is, once youre dead, there won’t be consciousness, you will not have any perception of a void, you won’t know anything because you will not be.
Marc Maron put it into good perspective. He was hiking in the hills and passed out. He noted that he could very well have been dead, and that would have been that. He wasnt scared because he wasnt conscious.
You can’t be afraid when you dont exist and you will not be aware of anything.
I don’t believe in God nor am I religious, but consciousness just feels so fucking weird man. Everything in the world can be explained through science and physics, cause and effect, hell even our brains and actions are just a chain of atoms interacting. But consciousness just feels so out of place. Why am I? Why am I even aware of my own existence? Why has a set of atoms resulted in my non-material consciousness? It feels so out of place. Why isn’t it just a bunch of atoms bumping into eachother, why am I capable of feeling and thinking?
I think about this more than anything in those quiet “run the brain’s existential dread garbage collection routine” moments.
Self aware consciousness is just so wild. Like you say, how does it even exist? But it’s also so common on our little planet here (even if we only count the humans) that it is as commonplace as it is spectacular.
It feels like this magical “extra” thing, but at the same time the evidence kinda suggests it’s just something that naturally happens once you get complex life.
The weirdest thing to me is that it’s literally impossible to measure and detect whether something has consciousness. Every other thing in our universe can be measured theoretically, even if not by our current tools, but there is no way to confirm that someone else is experiencing what I am experiencing currently. It’s just so weird.
You might find some answers in Julian Jaynes The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind.
Short version: consciousness is kind of new. We aren’t really good at it.
Also, Why Buddhism is True by Robert Wright is very good. Less about Buddhism more about how we think and why it works.
I think it’s important to point out that the bicameral mind is one theory, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. One of its major criticisms is that it suggests consciousness only arose in humans around the time we started writing about it, and that it didn’t exist in humans before then. It’s also entirely possible that humans were conscious way before that, but when we started writing about it was just when we developed the cultural concept of what consciousness is.
The theory also seems to imply there is something special about human metacognitive processes compared to other animals, which would therefore imply that animals are not conscious. That seems weirdly reductive when various non-human animals show some evidence of self-awareness (mirror spot test, Alex the grey parrot).
It’s a nice theory which ties lots of things together, but it’s no more true than any other theory of consciousness at the moment.
Correct. In the case of the question, I believe there is value to be gained, even if there are flaws in the argument.
I was really curious to check out that first book after your short version.
But damn, the subject matter of that second book might draw my attention first. The Buddhist approach & techniques made so much sense to me in a completely pragmatic way.
I might have to order myself physical copies of both of these to read outside by my koi pond on cool fall days. The fact that the whole scene will be so on the nose to the point of being cliched will just amuse me further, lol.
Thanks for the recommendations!
Edit: oh jesus christ there’s a koi on the cover of Why Buddhism is True, haha. Looks like I should invest in the hardcover.
I got a lot out of Wright’s book and I continue to revisit it.
It is a slow read that demands your attention, but it is very enlightening.
I will keep that in mind. I look forward to taking my time with it. Thank you again!
I ordered the other book too, but Wright’s book here has definitely jumped to the front of the line.
You are the construct of a million cells, an evolutionary “trick” that allows all the pieces to act as one. Your task is to percieve your environment and survive in it.
Sure, I get the biology and technical aspect of it and I can understand that something could evolve whose atoms would move in such a way that it results in an object that is capable of responding dynamically to its roundings, plan and think. But for that collection of atoms to then result in this experience, I feel is extraordinarily exceptional.
The thing is, once youre dead, there won’t be consciousness, you will not have any perception of a void, you won’t know anything because you will not be
Do we really know this though?
What if upon death we exit the simulation?
Sometimes I think non-sim me decided to play life on hard mode. I’d kind of like to kick his ass for that. But then I realize he is me.
Do we really know our dentists aren’t CIA agents installing radios but calling them fillings?!
What happens after death is just about the least concerning thing I can imagine. (yay rejoice!) Anywhere from seconds to decades of stuff to worry about before that! :) (oh no anxiety again sorry!)
:)
You can’t know until then, so what is the value in worrying?
That’s precisely the scary part. A nothingness, for all of eternity. It ends, never to continue. I do not know what it is like. Just… not seeing. Not hearing. None of the senses, and no thoughts either. No consciousness.
I wouldn’t be scared after dead, cuz I’dn’t have the consciousness for that. However, being alive, I can. I can fear the eternal nothingness of inexistence
I think this may or may not have some connection to a post from that monkey in the brain guy who also has a TED Talk (Tim Something?). I recall seeing a post of his about life or something. Talked about how short our lives are in the grand scheme of things. Had even an image with days or weeks or months of life, like a progress bar
On the other hand, reading that people actually close to death don’t worry as much as people imagining being close to death, iirc, may have had a positive impact in my fear. Though I recalln’t well
Well, there technically may not be an eternity. Universe is 14 billion years old now…in 32 trillion years or so the last black holes and last particles will cease to exist. Time will no longer have any meaning, and the nothingness will be all there is.
What a shit hand we were dealt.
Well, maybe not eternity, but that sure is a whołe lot of time for someone who’ll be around for probably less than 100 years (not sure why 100 is the number I think of when I think of an age limit to life. Is this a common occurrance, folks? Or just me? I mean, I do know some people go past it, but still…)
Dear brother/sister rest your mind. You cannot control what will happen and worry/fear will only agitate you.
I don’t like the idea of life being over, but it is inevitable. Seek acceptance and peace with this so you do not waste your precious hours with unnecessary discomfort. There is so much more to enjoy while we are still here!
Loss of life is followed by mourning - except when it is our own. Some spend decades mourning the end of their lives because they are scared of facing it down. You’ve done the big scary part already. Now spend the time taking yourself through all of your fears. Once you come to acceptance it doesn’t change what will be, but it will trouble you a lot less.
