OK, so the same shit about “trump is going to”. last I heard newsom was in charge of CA NG. Trump isn’t allowed to bring them up without a declaration of emergency or whatever.
Just bullshit that they will walk back in the morning.
e: LA times and AP seem to think this is actually happening. This is the boiling point; are you going to sit in the pot or jump out?
My only complaint (and I get to blame Regan) is that we can’t open carry here in Cali. That would help stop a lot of federal response if we had that capacity again.
I’m not for destroying government property since that’s property that belongs to the people, but I also respect that change doesn’t happen with complacency. Plus if it was a peaceful protest for Jan 6ers then why is this not considered one?
Every day I wish we didn’t have the current admin in charge since they lack capacity and bandwidth to take care of the real economic issues facing our generation and time.
Completely agree though that the national guard is in control of the governor. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if Newsom agrees to bring them in if the feds kick in FEMA funding like they’re supposed to.
Flashing a gun at those GI Joe wannabes would have triggered their tiny brains to go into shoot to kill mode, and it would have been a massacre.
These dimwits are trained for full blown military responses. That’s easy for them, they have the gear, the training, and the psychopaths to shoot on sight.
What they can’t handle is massive civil disobedience, because they can’t arrest 100k, 500k, 1 million people who are out there lawfully protesting.
But it’s nutjobs like you, or that moron who sped their car at the agents, who will fuck it up for everyone.
Don’t bring your gun. Keep it at home, and if shit gets to the point where they start killing people, then defend yourself.
As an addendum, I will say I agree with the argument put forward in your link that pacifism is a death sentence against a government willing to kill en masse regardless of what effects it would have on the world stage.
I don’t think the USA is at the point where nonviolent methods are ineffective.
They brought their authoritarian government to its knees with continued non violent (in the sense of lack of firearms) resistance combined with an effective general strike.
They ultimately failed because the liberal parts of the resistance fell for the reformist bait, but it demonstrated that you don’t need violence to win if you’re able to educate the movement that reform is a trap.
I disagree. They bring guns to scare us. To let the protestors know there are consequences.
For them to deal with an armed populace let’s them know if they start shooting, they might catch a bullet. They have to face that real consequence and it scares them.
Until that point, they pretty much know they don’t face ANY repercussions for ANY action they do.
I’m not saying to start armed protests. But this isn’t “flashing A gun” it’s 50 or 100 people who could lay hundreds or thousands of rounds at or in them if they do start using their weapons. And it will scare them into second guessing whether their life is worth detaining a few potentially illegal immigrants.
And, we outnumber them. Maybe not now with the amount of guns civilians own. But if the government starts shooting to kill random people at a protest. People will arm themselves and they will train themselves. The populace is a lot larger than police forces and military.
I agree with your points.
As someone who lived in Minneapolis during the “riots”, peaceful protest was instigated by police in order to arrest and get rid of the people in the streets. Then the police went to the news and said it turned into a riot.
So many examples of police being instigators. Shooting sandbags at people in their homes, pepper spraying from their vehicles when people were walking down the street in cross walks peacefully, people beat further when on the ground bleeding. I imagine how the police would have acted if people were carrying.
Would it have been a bloodbath? Or would they have been too nervous to do anything?
You act like I’m advocating murder. I’m advocating letting the government know that we can also have weapons and fight back. That doesn’t make me a fucking nut job, it makes me someone who has read a history book.
Civil disobedience has almost never worked, compared to armed disobedience. Even if those weapons are never fired. The point isn’t to go in shooting, it’s to get the military and police to back down and give the people what they demand.
You’re advocating for us to all roll over and wait until this administration gives us what we’re politely but firmly asking for. Which will never happen. They live for a show of force.
Keep holding your beliefs, it’ll be the last thing through your smug brain before the government executes you.
Show them a gun and you better be prepared to pull that trigger the moment they see it, because you’re going to die.
In a tense situation where there’s been some minor violence, a gun will immediately escalate things to a lethal level.
Stick to what I said and don’t make up stuff in your head please. I’m not against forceful opposition - rocks fly, things catch on fire, barricades get erected.
But don’t give them an armed conflict where they will 100% win, and much more easily spin it to fit their agenda.
That’s exactly what the Hamas attacks did - those fucking morons opened the door and put down a red carpet for Israel to get away with launching a full out “justified” war.
I love how you mention “they” aren’t going to kill unarmed protestors, and then proceed to mention a literal event in which they did. This country is founded on the government and corporations killing unarmed protestors.
What’s the acceptable number of dead people before also showing you’re armed is acceptable? Is it 5? 10? Maybe 1000?
If you pull up with guns they may kill you, but you have a better fighting chance than not. Plus if you were already going to die, since you’re so kind to sacrifice some people, wouldn’t you rather take some of them with you?
You’re playing by a made up set of rules where you think you being more moral than them makes you superior but it makes you dead and a loser.
There is no acceptable amount of civilian murders. The Fascists know this, and so they want an excuse to justify it. Bringing guns to protests gives them an excuse. It also makes the armed protestors the first targets of the thug forces, and triggers the cops’ shitty ingrained fear of everyone trying to kill them—that the fucking “training” they get—fills them with.
National guard can be taken and commanded by the president. But when that doesn’t happen, it’s chief commander is the governor.
The State Guard is solely under the command of the governor. It cannot have its control taken by the federal government. However, the state guard is often trained by the national guard and share membership.
I only saw a few clips of the protest. Did the protestors cause destruction of property? It looked like they took a bunch of stuff from home Depot to make a barricade.
I didn’t see much property damaged by protesters aside from ICE/DHS vehicles, but I did see numerous fires started by the munitions the nazis were using.
Ya’ll shouldn’t need to open carry because you idiots in the US could have just voted for not insane leaders for decades. Always a bad solution to a problem ya’ll could have easily avoided.
Oh it’s so simple! Why didn’t we just do that? Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with decades of undermining education and spewing propaganda through fox news
So many other places have figured how to at lesst not be as bad as the US, and they’ve also figured out how to stand up for themselves without firearms. US citizens are largely stupid cowards who will allow themselves to be sold for scrap so they can pretend that things are ok. There’s stupid and then there’s the US, the country with all the resources but not the two braincells to do anything with them. Ya’ll were fucked long before the propaganda and social engineering really took hold, and when it did those techniques came in playing on easy mode. The rest of the world looks at you amazed at how bad you are at everything and how you can’t even be bothered to at least be good people while sucking so bad.
We have had to watch the US put up clear, articulate, and even energizing politicians only for them to never make it into power way too many times. We’ve had to watch even mediocre people lose to people so insane and that even Fox News can’t hide it. It’s wild how fucked that country is, and now some douche canoe is bitching that they aren’t allowed to open carry because of course that’s your fucking solution.
The UK seems to keep letting Boris do shit in government.
AfD in Germany doubled their power in the last election.
Duterte hit the scene in the Philippines before trump in the US.
Italy just elected a far-right PM.
The biggest mistake you can make regarding the conservative dipshit death cult in the US, is assuming that your fellow dumbass citizens aren’t vulnerable to the exact same rhetoric.
Oh, the whole place is falling apart and US setting trends is a big part of that problem. Us in Canada should have done way better than we did last election, but even we managed to not do our usual flip-flop and barely scraped by not electing a massive piece of garbage who would have rolled over for Trump at every turn.
Didn’t I also say “long before” in there? That Duterte comment lookin’ kinda like you either weren’t reading like you think Trump is where it started falling apart. Or you think 2010 is ancient and irrelevant history, maybe.
Ah, so you know first-hand what I’m talking about. All this shit going on in the US, and your populace just barely didn’t shoehorn themselves into a far right shithole.
The biggest mistake you can make, is thinking that it can only happen in the US.
You can try to deflect all you want, the US is still a massive shithole that put itself in this mess and keeps exporting its pathetic extremism in myriad different ways. It’s a huge failure and trying to drag everyone down with it.
And all this started with me telling the person who thought banning open-carry firearms was the problem to shut the hell up. Everywhere is full of stupid, the US brand is just extra special.
Voting in a imperialist empire is like fucking with a limp dick. Some just can’t see far enough ahead so they shame those who wake up and smell the coffee. Your voting record is one more data point in your non existent privacy rights. America is not a democracy but a fascist neolibturd dookie arse hell hole. Always has been… Orange man bad is getting old. Libturds are in such denile. I am 40 beegillion years old. During the beginning of iraq afgan era I paid close attention. I am never surprised. All is going to plan. It is a hierarchical class structure of dildos using dildos as the slaves watch the puppet show. Some are literate but lack class consciousness and critical thinking. This is just the beginning. Democrats are all fascist. You are in denile.
He won with the popular vote the second time so congrats on just being objectively, verifiably, flat-out wrong, I guess. Plus it should not have even been close, even the first time when he didn’t win the popular vote. He has always given STRONG “weird fringe party guy” energy yet that dumbass country gleefully elected him or didn’t even show up because they didn’t find he was dangerous enough to do anything about. The opposition was a conservative who’s biggest selling point, after she tanked her own campaign by ignoring her base, was that she wasn’t Trump. Absolutely absurd.
And I’m only slightly less pissed about my fellow Canadians only barely electing a centrist over a Trump dick-sucker. Again, a party that doesn’t even have real policies should not get any votes and yet is for some reason the main contender.
Im not sure but I believe after 911, national guard units were deployed to Iraq (which had nothing to do with 911) by order of the president. I believe that if the president declares an emergency then they can use the national guards however they want.
It would make sense if Congress were required in this decision making process but that would be out of character for a fascist criminal ring
Fucking newspapers these days, this shit is important.
https://archive.ph/3X3Fe
OK, so the same shit about “trump is going to”. last I heard newsom was in charge of CA NG. Trump isn’t allowed to bring them up without a declaration of emergency or whatever.
Just bullshit that they will walk back in the morning.
e: LA times and AP seem to think this is actually happening. This is the boiling point; are you going to sit in the pot or jump out?
My only complaint (and I get to blame Regan) is that we can’t open carry here in Cali. That would help stop a lot of federal response if we had that capacity again.
I’m not for destroying government property since that’s property that belongs to the people, but I also respect that change doesn’t happen with complacency. Plus if it was a peaceful protest for Jan 6ers then why is this not considered one?
Every day I wish we didn’t have the current admin in charge since they lack capacity and bandwidth to take care of the real economic issues facing our generation and time.
Completely agree though that the national guard is in control of the governor. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if Newsom agrees to bring them in if the feds kick in FEMA funding like they’re supposed to.
Open carry would have stopped NOTHING.
Flashing a gun at those GI Joe wannabes would have triggered their tiny brains to go into shoot to kill mode, and it would have been a massacre.
These dimwits are trained for full blown military responses. That’s easy for them, they have the gear, the training, and the psychopaths to shoot on sight.
What they can’t handle is massive civil disobedience, because they can’t arrest 100k, 500k, 1 million people who are out there lawfully protesting.
But it’s nutjobs like you, or that moron who sped their car at the agents, who will fuck it up for everyone.
Don’t bring your gun. Keep it at home, and if shit gets to the point where they start killing people, then defend yourself.
This is the correct response at this point.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-the-failure-of-nonviolence
As an addendum, I will say I agree with the argument put forward in your link that pacifism is a death sentence against a government willing to kill en masse regardless of what effects it would have on the world stage.
I don’t think the USA is at the point where nonviolent methods are ineffective.
https://anarchistnews.org/content/hostages-gun-militancy-and-militarism
And look at Chile in 2019: https://itsgoingdown.org/submedia-presents-interrebellium-the-estallido-social/
They brought their authoritarian government to its knees with continued non violent (in the sense of lack of firearms) resistance combined with an effective general strike.
They ultimately failed because the liberal parts of the resistance fell for the reformist bait, but it demonstrated that you don’t need violence to win if you’re able to educate the movement that reform is a trap.
I disagree. They bring guns to scare us. To let the protestors know there are consequences.
For them to deal with an armed populace let’s them know if they start shooting, they might catch a bullet. They have to face that real consequence and it scares them.
Until that point, they pretty much know they don’t face ANY repercussions for ANY action they do.
I’m not saying to start armed protests. But this isn’t “flashing A gun” it’s 50 or 100 people who could lay hundreds or thousands of rounds at or in them if they do start using their weapons. And it will scare them into second guessing whether their life is worth detaining a few potentially illegal immigrants.
And, we outnumber them. Maybe not now with the amount of guns civilians own. But if the government starts shooting to kill random people at a protest. People will arm themselves and they will train themselves. The populace is a lot larger than police forces and military.
I agree with your points.
As someone who lived in Minneapolis during the “riots”, peaceful protest was instigated by police in order to arrest and get rid of the people in the streets. Then the police went to the news and said it turned into a riot. So many examples of police being instigators. Shooting sandbags at people in their homes, pepper spraying from their vehicles when people were walking down the street in cross walks peacefully, people beat further when on the ground bleeding. I imagine how the police would have acted if people were carrying. Would it have been a bloodbath? Or would they have been too nervous to do anything?
You act like I’m advocating murder. I’m advocating letting the government know that we can also have weapons and fight back. That doesn’t make me a fucking nut job, it makes me someone who has read a history book.
Civil disobedience has almost never worked, compared to armed disobedience. Even if those weapons are never fired. The point isn’t to go in shooting, it’s to get the military and police to back down and give the people what they demand.
You’re advocating for us to all roll over and wait until this administration gives us what we’re politely but firmly asking for. Which will never happen. They live for a show of force.
Keep holding your beliefs, it’ll be the last thing through your smug brain before the government executes you.
Show them a gun and you better be prepared to pull that trigger the moment they see it, because you’re going to die.
In a tense situation where there’s been some minor violence, a gun will immediately escalate things to a lethal level.
Stick to what I said and don’t make up stuff in your head please. I’m not against forceful opposition - rocks fly, things catch on fire, barricades get erected.
But don’t give them an armed conflict where they will 100% win, and much more easily spin it to fit their agenda.
That’s exactly what the Hamas attacks did - those fucking morons opened the door and put down a red carpet for Israel to get away with launching a full out “justified” war.
With what? Left weapon at home.
They aren’t going to kill many unarmed protesters, especially initially. There’s a reason they stopped at 4 during the Kent state fiasco.
Most of us will be fine and able to go home and plan for guerrilla tactics that have a better chance of survival later.
Edit: decided to emphasize my point even though only one person apparently missed it.
I love how you mention “they” aren’t going to kill unarmed protestors, and then proceed to mention a literal event in which they did. This country is founded on the government and corporations killing unarmed protestors.
He never said they aren’t going to kill anyone.
He said they aren’t going to kill many.
Which is true, up until a bunch of people pull guns, and then they’ll kill everyone.
What’s the acceptable number of dead people before also showing you’re armed is acceptable? Is it 5? 10? Maybe 1000?
If you pull up with guns they may kill you, but you have a better fighting chance than not. Plus if you were already going to die, since you’re so kind to sacrifice some people, wouldn’t you rather take some of them with you?
You’re playing by a made up set of rules where you think you being more moral than them makes you superior but it makes you dead and a loser.
There is no acceptable amount of civilian murders. The Fascists know this, and so they want an excuse to justify it. Bringing guns to protests gives them an excuse. It also makes the armed protestors the first targets of the thug forces, and triggers the cops’ shitty ingrained fear of everyone trying to kill them—that the fucking “training” they get—fills them with.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-the-failure-of-nonviolence
Tldr
National guard can be taken and commanded by the president. But when that doesn’t happen, it’s chief commander is the governor.
The State Guard is solely under the command of the governor. It cannot have its control taken by the federal government. However, the state guard is often trained by the national guard and share membership.
I only saw a few clips of the protest. Did the protestors cause destruction of property? It looked like they took a bunch of stuff from home Depot to make a barricade.
I didn’t see much property damaged by protesters aside from ICE/DHS vehicles, but I did see numerous fires started by the munitions the nazis were using.
Ya’ll shouldn’t need to open carry because you idiots in the US could have just voted for not insane leaders for decades. Always a bad solution to a problem ya’ll could have easily avoided.
California did not vote for Donny Dumbass. Retaliation on blue states is part of the Trump agenda.
(Though he’s pissed off a couple red states too)
Oh it’s so simple! Why didn’t we just do that? Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with decades of undermining education and spewing propaganda through fox news
Damn republicans! How could they! Bring in the democrats!
You’re discounting decades of propaganda and social engineering. But go off I guess.
So many other places have figured how to at lesst not be as bad as the US, and they’ve also figured out how to stand up for themselves without firearms. US citizens are largely stupid cowards who will allow themselves to be sold for scrap so they can pretend that things are ok. There’s stupid and then there’s the US, the country with all the resources but not the two braincells to do anything with them. Ya’ll were fucked long before the propaganda and social engineering really took hold, and when it did those techniques came in playing on easy mode. The rest of the world looks at you amazed at how bad you are at everything and how you can’t even be bothered to at least be good people while sucking so bad.
We have had to watch the US put up clear, articulate, and even energizing politicians only for them to never make it into power way too many times. We’ve had to watch even mediocre people lose to people so insane and that even Fox News can’t hide it. It’s wild how fucked that country is, and now some douche canoe is bitching that they aren’t allowed to open carry because of course that’s your fucking solution.
Garbage country. Country of garbage.
The UK seems to keep letting Boris do shit in government.
AfD in Germany doubled their power in the last election.
Duterte hit the scene in the Philippines before trump in the US.
Italy just elected a far-right PM.
The biggest mistake you can make regarding the conservative dipshit death cult in the US, is assuming that your fellow dumbass citizens aren’t vulnerable to the exact same rhetoric.
Oh, the whole place is falling apart and US setting trends is a big part of that problem. Us in Canada should have done way better than we did last election, but even we managed to not do our usual flip-flop and barely scraped by not electing a massive piece of garbage who would have rolled over for Trump at every turn.
Didn’t I also say “long before” in there? That Duterte comment lookin’ kinda like you either weren’t reading like you think Trump is where it started falling apart. Or you think 2010 is ancient and irrelevant history, maybe.
Ah, so you know first-hand what I’m talking about. All this shit going on in the US, and your populace just barely didn’t shoehorn themselves into a far right shithole.
The biggest mistake you can make, is thinking that it can only happen in the US.
You can try to deflect all you want, the US is still a massive shithole that put itself in this mess and keeps exporting its pathetic extremism in myriad different ways. It’s a huge failure and trying to drag everyone down with it.
And all this started with me telling the person who thought banning open-carry firearms was the problem to shut the hell up. Everywhere is full of stupid, the US brand is just extra special.
JuSt VoOoTe!! VOooTe HaRdER! I’m VOOTING!!
Voting in a imperialist empire is like fucking with a limp dick. Some just can’t see far enough ahead so they shame those who wake up and smell the coffee. Your voting record is one more data point in your non existent privacy rights. America is not a democracy but a fascist neolibturd dookie arse hell hole. Always has been… Orange man bad is getting old. Libturds are in such denile. I am 40 beegillion years old. During the beginning of iraq afgan era I paid close attention. I am never surprised. All is going to plan. It is a hierarchical class structure of dildos using dildos as the slaves watch the puppet show. Some are literate but lack class consciousness and critical thinking. This is just the beginning. Democrats are all fascist. You are in denile.
More people voted for not Trump than for Trump.
He won with the popular vote the second time so congrats on just being objectively, verifiably, flat-out wrong, I guess. Plus it should not have even been close, even the first time when he didn’t win the popular vote. He has always given STRONG “weird fringe party guy” energy yet that dumbass country gleefully elected him or didn’t even show up because they didn’t find he was dangerous enough to do anything about. The opposition was a conservative who’s biggest selling point, after she tanked her own campaign by ignoring her base, was that she wasn’t Trump. Absolutely absurd.
And I’m only slightly less pissed about my fellow Canadians only barely electing a centrist over a Trump dick-sucker. Again, a party that doesn’t even have real policies should not get any votes and yet is for some reason the main contender.
Total votes for DJT: 77,302,580
Total votes for all the other people (Harris, Stein, Kennedy, Oliver and other) combined: 77,935,722
So yes, DJT won the popular vote, but the majority, even if just a teeny tiny one, did not vote for him. DJT just got 49.8% of the total votes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election#Results
I see what you’re getting at, my point otherwise still stands. Fucking embarrassing.
Trump pulled off a lot of things he has no right to. Like deporting innocent people without due process to a death camp.
Im not sure but I believe after 911, national guard units were deployed to Iraq (which had nothing to do with 911) by order of the president. I believe that if the president declares an emergency then they can use the national guards however they want.
It would make sense if Congress were required in this decision making process but that would be out of character for a fascist criminal ring