cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/62976508
Just 10 years ago the US was still seen as being progressive and racism was slowly becoming a thing of the past… and not even in 10 years all the major civil rights achievements of rhe past 70 years are being thrown out so fast it is making my head spin.
But you’re operating from a state that, all people operate in good faith. These people will twist the narrative no matter what you do. They don’t wait for you to validate them. They twist reality and logic and manipulate events. There is no reasoning with these types. If you sit back and do nothing, they’ll twist that to their agenda just as much as if you do something. But sitting back guarantees a smooth path of no resistance, they get thier agenda easily. Resisting means they don’t get there as easily. Nobody in history made changes by sitting back and sending love vibes, my friend, I truly wish that were the case. Women lost their lives, just for the right to vote. How many rights have been removed or are under threat right now? I mean absolutely no disrespect, and I can see your logic, I just feel like maybe you aren’t personally familiar with these manipulative types. I get that you understand reactive abuse and you see they’re trying to use that, but it really doesn’t matter, they’ll do the same thing anyway, so maybe the path is somewhere in the middle, not giving them a reason, but not sitting back quietly and there’s no waiting for someone to oppose them, it’s now, right now.
I think you misunderstand me. I’m not suggesting complacency, just a focused approach that doesn’t exacerbate the issue. The more divided we are, the more power we lose, and that goes for all political parties. Both sides profit off of our hatred and fear towards each other.
We need action. 100%. I’m just saying be smart about it. If violence is the answer, so be it, but you have to go all in and you have to win.
A lot of the reason Trump fanatics exist is because it’s a reaction to the “woke movement”. People got some validation and ran with it, spreading hate for ignorance instead of teaching tolerance. People need to feel heard and just like Hitler, Trump is the leader of those who feel ignored.
No, it’s really, really not because of the “woke movement”. That’s just Republican propaganda. People - in general - were living their lives and moving along with society, the way they always do.
A lot of other people didn’t like that, the way they always do. The same type of people that didn’t like Lincoln so much they started a war. The same type of people that didn’t like Reconstruction, the same type of people that put up confederate statues in the 1960s and pretended it was “heritage”, the same type of people that claimed gay marriage would destroy society, the same time of people that are out there right now waving a confederate flag and screaming about “wokism”.
That hate has always been there, seething beneath societal progress as these people felt left behind. “Woke” didn’t inspire them to come out of the woodwork - Trump and his ilk did.
“Woke” didn’t turn people into bigots and haters. Some always were, others were persuaded by the very effective propaganda machine designed to (again!) inspire hatred, and fear.
I understand your frustration, but you misinterpreted what I was saying. I’m not saying they weren’t racist or prejudiced before. I’m saying the revolution against them pushed them to look for a hero, and Trump is that. Some people on the left display a certain level of aggression that is not conducive to positive change. Just be smart and don’t be like the people you dislike.
I clearly didn’t miss your point, because you keep feeling the need to suggest that any of this is somehow the fault of the left. That it’s “wokism” and “aggression” that pushed people to support Trump.
It’s not. You’re just victim blaming.
The overwhelming fanaticism was partly fueled by the aggressive response from the left. You yourself said it to be true because the media like Fox used it to get people fired up. If you’re denying that people on the left may have been overly aggressive in their condemnation of people on the right, then we will have to agree to disagree.
I absolutely did not say that. I said that Fox News lied to get people riled up. That Fox News intentionally propagandized the entire situation until every person on the left - “fanatical” or otherwise - was painted with the same brush of treasonous woke extremism.
It’s all fucking propaganda and scapegoats, and here you are still doing their job for them.
EDIT: Please read about calling out vs calling in if you haven’t done so already: https://edib.harvard.edu/files/dib/files/calling_in_and_calling_out_guide_v4.pdf
You seem very frustrated. Let’s break it down.
Fox News used cancel culture and “wokeism” to get people fired up whether it was through lies or not.
Some people on the left were in fact aggressively calling people out on the right for their wrongdoings and condemning them.
These actions validated Fox News’ assertions of the left’s behavior and elicited fear and shame in people on the right who may feel targeted because of their racism and bigotry.
Donald Trump stood up for the people on the right when other presidential candidates on the left did not.
Donald Trump becomes a hero and is idolized partially due to being a savior to them during a time of “cancel culture”.
Where we might disagree is #2. If you believe that people were not being canceled and attacked, then no point going any further. That would be strange though since it sounds like you might be in favor of more aggressive approaches.
Don’t feed the machine. Be smart, compassionate and the hardest part is be patient.
Hah. No. Where we disagree is #3.
Specifically:
These actions didn’t validate shit or elicit fear and shame in people. Fox News and social media campaigns did.
Toppling confederate statues didn’t make people afraid - Fox News did that by spending 24/7 news cycles convincing people that hating the confederacy was the same thing as hating white people. Calling out right-wing assholes didn’t make people afraid - Fox News did that by convincing people they weren’t assholes in the first place.
Or, even worse, by convincing them that these actions were “aggressive” at all!
Those poor right wingers were aggressively called out! Oh no! People were so mean to them online. I know, it’s terrible for someone to be aggressive on twitter. That’s just wrong. Those people should have known better than to push people into the arms of Trump with their aggressive tweeting.
Or maybe it’s just lies? The “aggression” wasn’t really anything? Just people talking shit online, and other people getting upset and talking shit back? Then talking heads on TV quoting all of those people talking shit? Back and forth and back and forth?
No, you’re totally right. The aggression was too much. They were all just too aggressive against innocent people like Ricky Gervais. So aggressive in cancelling him that he made millions touring around the country whining about how he was cancelled, and telling the “jokes” that got him “cancelled”. Poor man just couldn’t catch a break.
Lol you don’t get some moral high ground by being calm. You just get - at best - ignored. At worst? Crushed by the machine that you are trying to stop with “love and logic.” Good luck with that.
I don’t have any logical reason to be calm in the face of tyranny, nor do I have any moral reason to be polite in the face of your victim blaming.
We don’t need patience, what we need is solidarity, and I believe that blaming anyone other than the tyrants for their tyranny is in direct opposition to solidarity.
I have given you more than enough good faith in the attempt to convince you of that.
So, at the risk of somehow accidentally turning you into a Trumper - fuck off.