No point fighting.
Just remember its the same people that don’t understand a scholarship only for “people of color” is by definition racist. If a “white people” only scholarship is racist so is the one for people of color.
Research has shown that students from Black minority and ethnic (BME) backgrounds are less likely than white students to achieve a first or upper second class degree, despite high level entry qualifications. Deep rooted inequalities and systemic racism contribute to this. Furthermore, this can lead to differences in employment outcomes between white and BME students long after graduation.
Imagine we have a student from a disadvantaged background. They win a place at university and they receive the tuition fee loan and maintenance loan from student finance. In the majority of cases, these loans will not cover their living costs and this is why 67% of students now have to work part-time while they study. If you cannot rely on the bank of Mum & Dad, the pressure of studying and working to cover your costs such as food, books, equipment, travel and accommodation can take its toll on your studies. 79% of students now say they worry about money constantly.
Of course, scholarships do not have to be exclusively offered to BME students. They can also be used to achieve other diversity targets, such as attracting women into STEM or disadvantaged students in to the professions.
Deep rooted inequalities and systemic racism contribute to this.
Please explain the current inequalities black and ethic minorities face. If this a major point of the article, it needs to be defined and example needs to be given.
Furthermore, this can lead to differences in employment outcomes between white and BME students long after graduation.
Well, yes if you don’t finish collage that’s going to affect employment long term.
In the majority of cases, these loans will not cover their living costs and this is why 67% of students now have to work part-time while they study
That issue is not limited to people of color, whites have the same problem. The student debt issue is another problem, but its fucked up for everyone.
If you cannot rely on the bank of Mum & Dad,
Why does it seem like it is assumed every white person has generations of generational wealth built up? A lot whites, don’t have parental banks either. Who’s helping them?
Fundamentaly a scholoship that says “must be black to apply” is excluding a large group of people solely based on skin color. A poor white kid and a poor black could grow up in the same house and both are going to end up in a mountain of debt, but one of them gets a little more help because they happen to have a different skin color.
Please explain the current inequalities black and ethic minorities face.
I wish I could also thank you for a proper reply, but it really seems like you’re taking the piss. If you don’t even understand that racism is a thing, then it’s not really worth the effort of trying to explain any of this to you.
I apologize, that question was certainly poorly thought out and too aggressive. I’m purposely challenging our differences, and I did push too far with that one, being that the answer is obvious. We’re definitely going too far into this on a skyrim shitpost meme (suprised the thread hasn’t been nuked yet), but I shall continue the discourse.
My point is that legally speaking, whites and blacks have equal rights and the same opportunities available. In fact, we’re creating all kinds of aid systems specifically to help them.
So what I’m trying to pry at, is to find what in the current system is failing them.
Another point I’ve been pressing, is that skin color alone should not be the basis for aid. If some one needs help, help them. No need to ask about race, sex, ancenstory, religion, hair color, etc. - just help them.
Yes our nation’s ancestors have treated blacks beyond horribly, the more recent ones have begun to right that. Unfortuanly it is an extremely slow process to beat the predjuduce out of a few hundred million people. Considering the progress over the last 200 years, massive improvements have been made, with alot of it made in the past 60. It now up to us, the current generation to continue the progress foward.
However, many black families are still stuck where they were in the 1970s. Clearly the current systems are not helping, despite all the aid given to them.
It is my opion, they are being helped in a way that doesn’t encourage actaully finical independance. This could be part of why they’re still lagging so far behind some other miniorties, such as Asians. I went into it a few comments ago, but its basically “why work harder for less, when I can live off government aid.” Asian/Ellis Island era European immigrants didn’t have the same aid, and 80 years later Asians are among the most successful groups, or at least average.
To me it’s like we’re saying “here have just enough money so you’ll shut up and stay where you are. If you save up good, maybe your grandkids can go to collage - which is what we are seeing now. (By the way don’t get sick or your whole savings will disappear).”
If our government really wanted to help, they’d fund the schools, clear out the gangs, help people fix up their homes so maybe they sell for good price, tear down all the condemed buildings to build better community housing or something for jobs. And lastly, to bring us back my original scolorship comment, fix the fucked up student loan system that fucks over all american equally.
whites and blacks have equal rights and the same opportunities available
untrue
skin color alone should not be the basis for aid. If some one needs help, help them.
There is actually a lot more extra help granted to white people especially the well off than will ever go to black people. There is a higher proportion of white people in Harvard now who wouldn’t have made it purely on merit than any other race. In a less shitty environment maybe being colorblind would actually make sense. In actuality it decreases fairness.
Clearly the current systems are not helping, despite all the aid given to them.
The actual aid that is available to families is largely a joke
why work harder for less, when I can live off government aid
You actually largely can’t you would end up living with the hobos on the cardboard if you without any disability decided not to bust your fucking ass.
Asian/Ellis Island era European immigrants didn’t have the same aid, and 80 years later Asians are among the most successful groups, or at least average.
80 years ago isn’t today. 80 years ago jobs that paid 50k didn’t require 100K in debt while houses cost $400k.
You took this out of context and have yet to provide a single example.
I said by law we all have equal rights and opportunities.
In reality, that is obviously not the case, but not do to laws.
There is actually a lot more extra help granted to white people especially the well off than will ever go to black people.
Where the fuck is my extra help? The well off created the systems to keep them well off, and the rest of us get to stay poor. Unless you can change that, we’re all fucked.
There is a higher proportion of white people in Harvard now who wouldn’t have made it purely on merit than any other race.
I’d like to compare that to the number of rejected black students as well. Looking at Harvard’s site, the number of black students accepted to Harvard is sigifinatly less than white students.
Partially due to the fact theres a significantly higher white population in the nation, unless that difference goes away, statiscally we will never see an equal amount of white people and black people in the same “space”. I wasn’t able to find the diversity statitics for applications, I’d love to see how that compares to the admitted students.
I won’t fault Harvard if more whites get in because that how numbers work. To be clear, that’s from a purly statistical point of view. If anyone gets accepted/rejected specficaly because of their skin color, that’s is a problem.
You actually largely can’t you would end up living with the hobos on the cardboard if you without any disability decided not to bust your fucking ass. / 80 years ago jobs that paid 50k didn’t require 100K in debt while houses cost $400k.
We all bust our asses and people still can’t go to collage without loans or buy a house, that’s not a race specific issue.
You are basically a KKK member without a hood.
Why would you make light of the atrocities made by the KKK? The KKK were murdering blacks out of pure hatred. Not once in any of my comments did I suggest any kind of violence. If your arguments reduce into insane accusations, how am I supposed to take anything you say seriously?
Racism is a thing among individuals, but its not baked into our laws like it used to be. Individuals do treat poc poorly, and that is not good. Those that do deserve punishment.
Name one inequality that make a poc “less equal” than others? They both can go to school, they get the same jobs, they hold elected postions, they can even become president.
Sure. People of that skin about 15 million people for 400 year built this country without being able to reap any rewards for their contributions. Then I took another 80-99 years to give those people equal rights that we still struggle with today. By the time they became equal everything was owned and they were already cast into poverty. Until we see equal outcomes from people of that skin color as the average majority they deserve as much help as we can give them. Honestly they deserve reparations. But instead they only get scholarships until the college population equals that of the racial makeup of this country. Oh yeah they qualify for college just they wouldn’t get accepted because the institution is racist or with out the help the kids will have to potentially put their family at risk with huge loans.
By the time they became equal everything was owned and they were already cast into poverty.
What about all the immigrant families from the 1900s? By the time they moved over “everything” was owned and they too were cast into poverty. There seems to be a belief that if your skin color is white, you are immeditatly have generational weatth, when that simply is not true.
Honestly they deserve reparations.
How do you figure that out? There’re blacks finding on out one of their grandparents decended form slaves owners. Do they have to pay reparations, do they get half reparations? What about an immigrant who moved from Europe 20 years ago, do they pay reparations too? How about the Asians who were forced into internment camps during ww2, (they seem to doing alright after 80 years). Unfortunatly, I don’t see any way to figure out “who deserves what”. Frankly, if a child isn’t responsible for their parents crimes, why are whites being asked to take responsibitly for their great-great-great-great grandparents crimes? I will say, current communities (mostly the poor urban ones) deserves a lot of reparations from the politioms that are failing them, not the average white Joe.
They deserve as much help as we can give them.
The gov. needs to fix how we are giving people help. It seems that current help doesn’t actually encourage independent finical success. They way the aid is handed out based on income, a lot of people find they get less money than if they did work or got a raise. Let’s say the gov gives you 1k a month, you make federal min wage $7.25, work 40hrs and make $290 a week. Your total for the month(4weeks) is $2160 (pre-tax). That’s a fair amount. Let’s say get a raise, to $10, that $400 a week, but because your making more your aid also decreases. You’re making $440 more, it seems fair to drop your aid to $700 a month, so now your taking home $2300. That’s a nice increase, until you account for taxes. That aid isn’t taxed like wages, if at all. A lot of times, after taxes, an increase in wage and decrease in aid results in less going to the bank. Who is going to work for a better job, if they can just keep getting their free aid and make more money?
they qualify for college just they wouldn’t get accepted because the institution is racist
Stop asking about physical characteristics on the application, and even if some old white racists is in charge of it, they won’t know. Acception is based on merits, if certain communities are denied more often because they do not meet the merit based requirments, we need to look at the way underfunded primary education/childhood not the university.
With out the help the kids will have to potentially put their family at risk with huge loans.
That’s a problem across all races, not just blacks or disadvantaged one. My parents didn’t even qualify for the the family loans because their income was too low, yet I didn’t qualify for any income based scholarships, my skin was the wrong color for those ones. Just got some financial aid, a mountain of debt and a few small merit based scholarships.
The reality is: if you don’t understand why providing “white” scholarships is very different from providing “people of color” scholarships, then you don’t have a full understanding of how Racism manifests in America. This is a fundamental thing you will need to work to better understand before a discussion of this topic can be useful.
Nevertheless, you are correct that not every white person in America take advantage of generational wealth, but this is besides the point. The fact is Black Americans have been in this country for 400 years and the community is still disproportionately impoverished, whereas there are a lot of European/Asian immigrants who have been here for much less time and they are much better off. You kind of make this observation in your response, but missed the implications it has on how Racism rewards certain demographics.
No point fighting. Just remember its the same people that don’t understand a scholarship only for “people of color” is by definition racist. If a “white people” only scholarship is racist so is the one for people of color.
Are you pretending to misunderstand because you’re a racist, or do you actually misunderstand because you’re an idiot?
Please explain to me why a group of people gets a specific scholarship made for them soley based on their skin color?
https://www.thescholarshiphub.org.uk/scholarships-diversity-inclusion-initiative/
Thank you for a proper replay.
Please explain the current inequalities black and ethic minorities face. If this a major point of the article, it needs to be defined and example needs to be given.
Well, yes if you don’t finish collage that’s going to affect employment long term.
That issue is not limited to people of color, whites have the same problem. The student debt issue is another problem, but its fucked up for everyone.
Why does it seem like it is assumed every white person has generations of generational wealth built up? A lot whites, don’t have parental banks either. Who’s helping them?
Fundamentaly a scholoship that says “must be black to apply” is excluding a large group of people solely based on skin color. A poor white kid and a poor black could grow up in the same house and both are going to end up in a mountain of debt, but one of them gets a little more help because they happen to have a different skin color.
I wish I could also thank you for a proper reply, but it really seems like you’re taking the piss. If you don’t even understand that racism is a thing, then it’s not really worth the effort of trying to explain any of this to you.
I apologize, that question was certainly poorly thought out and too aggressive. I’m purposely challenging our differences, and I did push too far with that one, being that the answer is obvious. We’re definitely going too far into this on a skyrim shitpost meme (suprised the thread hasn’t been nuked yet), but I shall continue the discourse.
My point is that legally speaking, whites and blacks have equal rights and the same opportunities available. In fact, we’re creating all kinds of aid systems specifically to help them. So what I’m trying to pry at, is to find what in the current system is failing them.
Another point I’ve been pressing, is that skin color alone should not be the basis for aid. If some one needs help, help them. No need to ask about race, sex, ancenstory, religion, hair color, etc. - just help them.
Yes our nation’s ancestors have treated blacks beyond horribly, the more recent ones have begun to right that. Unfortuanly it is an extremely slow process to beat the predjuduce out of a few hundred million people. Considering the progress over the last 200 years, massive improvements have been made, with alot of it made in the past 60. It now up to us, the current generation to continue the progress foward. However, many black families are still stuck where they were in the 1970s. Clearly the current systems are not helping, despite all the aid given to them.
It is my opion, they are being helped in a way that doesn’t encourage actaully finical independance. This could be part of why they’re still lagging so far behind some other miniorties, such as Asians. I went into it a few comments ago, but its basically “why work harder for less, when I can live off government aid.” Asian/Ellis Island era European immigrants didn’t have the same aid, and 80 years later Asians are among the most successful groups, or at least average.
To me it’s like we’re saying “here have just enough money so you’ll shut up and stay where you are. If you save up good, maybe your grandkids can go to collage - which is what we are seeing now. (By the way don’t get sick or your whole savings will disappear).”
If our government really wanted to help, they’d fund the schools, clear out the gangs, help people fix up their homes so maybe they sell for good price, tear down all the condemed buildings to build better community housing or something for jobs. And lastly, to bring us back my original scolorship comment, fix the fucked up student loan system that fucks over all american equally.
untrue
There is actually a lot more extra help granted to white people especially the well off than will ever go to black people. There is a higher proportion of white people in Harvard now who wouldn’t have made it purely on merit than any other race. In a less shitty environment maybe being colorblind would actually make sense. In actuality it decreases fairness.
The actual aid that is available to families is largely a joke
You actually largely can’t you would end up living with the hobos on the cardboard if you without any disability decided not to bust your fucking ass.
80 years ago isn’t today. 80 years ago jobs that paid 50k didn’t require 100K in debt while houses cost $400k.
You are basically a KKK member without a hood.
You took this out of context and have yet to provide a single example. I said by law we all have equal rights and opportunities. In reality, that is obviously not the case, but not do to laws.
Where the fuck is my extra help? The well off created the systems to keep them well off, and the rest of us get to stay poor. Unless you can change that, we’re all fucked.
I’d like to compare that to the number of rejected black students as well. Looking at Harvard’s site, the number of black students accepted to Harvard is sigifinatly less than white students. Partially due to the fact theres a significantly higher white population in the nation, unless that difference goes away, statiscally we will never see an equal amount of white people and black people in the same “space”. I wasn’t able to find the diversity statitics for applications, I’d love to see how that compares to the admitted students. I won’t fault Harvard if more whites get in because that how numbers work. To be clear, that’s from a purly statistical point of view. If anyone gets accepted/rejected specficaly because of their skin color, that’s is a problem.
We all bust our asses and people still can’t go to collage without loans or buy a house, that’s not a race specific issue.
Why would you make light of the atrocities made by the KKK? The KKK were murdering blacks out of pure hatred. Not once in any of my comments did I suggest any kind of violence. If your arguments reduce into insane accusations, how am I supposed to take anything you say seriously?
Racism is a thing among individuals, but its not baked into our laws like it used to be. Individuals do treat poc poorly, and that is not good. Those that do deserve punishment.
Name one inequality that make a poc “less equal” than others? They both can go to school, they get the same jobs, they hold elected postions, they can even become president.
You are confusing racism with bigotry.
Racism is the system. Bigotry is the individual.
Sure. People of that skin about 15 million people for 400 year built this country without being able to reap any rewards for their contributions. Then I took another 80-99 years to give those people equal rights that we still struggle with today. By the time they became equal everything was owned and they were already cast into poverty. Until we see equal outcomes from people of that skin color as the average majority they deserve as much help as we can give them. Honestly they deserve reparations. But instead they only get scholarships until the college population equals that of the racial makeup of this country. Oh yeah they qualify for college just they wouldn’t get accepted because the institution is racist or with out the help the kids will have to potentially put their family at risk with huge loans.
First, think you for a proper reply.
What about all the immigrant families from the 1900s? By the time they moved over “everything” was owned and they too were cast into poverty. There seems to be a belief that if your skin color is white, you are immeditatly have generational weatth, when that simply is not true.
How do you figure that out? There’re blacks finding on out one of their grandparents decended form slaves owners. Do they have to pay reparations, do they get half reparations? What about an immigrant who moved from Europe 20 years ago, do they pay reparations too? How about the Asians who were forced into internment camps during ww2, (they seem to doing alright after 80 years). Unfortunatly, I don’t see any way to figure out “who deserves what”. Frankly, if a child isn’t responsible for their parents crimes, why are whites being asked to take responsibitly for their great-great-great-great grandparents crimes? I will say, current communities (mostly the poor urban ones) deserves a lot of reparations from the politioms that are failing them, not the average white Joe.
The gov. needs to fix how we are giving people help. It seems that current help doesn’t actually encourage independent finical success. They way the aid is handed out based on income, a lot of people find they get less money than if they did work or got a raise. Let’s say the gov gives you 1k a month, you make federal min wage $7.25, work 40hrs and make $290 a week. Your total for the month(4weeks) is $2160 (pre-tax). That’s a fair amount. Let’s say get a raise, to $10, that $400 a week, but because your making more your aid also decreases. You’re making $440 more, it seems fair to drop your aid to $700 a month, so now your taking home $2300. That’s a nice increase, until you account for taxes. That aid isn’t taxed like wages, if at all. A lot of times, after taxes, an increase in wage and decrease in aid results in less going to the bank. Who is going to work for a better job, if they can just keep getting their free aid and make more money?
Stop asking about physical characteristics on the application, and even if some old white racists is in charge of it, they won’t know. Acception is based on merits, if certain communities are denied more often because they do not meet the merit based requirments, we need to look at the way underfunded primary education/childhood not the university.
That’s a problem across all races, not just blacks or disadvantaged one. My parents didn’t even qualify for the the family loans because their income was too low, yet I didn’t qualify for any income based scholarships, my skin was the wrong color for those ones. Just got some financial aid, a mountain of debt and a few small merit based scholarships.
The reality is: if you don’t understand why providing “white” scholarships is very different from providing “people of color” scholarships, then you don’t have a full understanding of how Racism manifests in America. This is a fundamental thing you will need to work to better understand before a discussion of this topic can be useful.
Nevertheless, you are correct that not every white person in America take advantage of generational wealth, but this is besides the point. The fact is Black Americans have been in this country for 400 years and the community is still disproportionately impoverished, whereas there are a lot of European/Asian immigrants who have been here for much less time and they are much better off. You kind of make this observation in your response, but missed the implications it has on how Racism rewards certain demographics.