• AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Through mass/energy equivalence, E=mc2. Energy distorts spacetime the same as its equivalent rest mass.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          To clarify, energy isn’t a “thing” that exists. It’s a property of matter, and so is mass.

          So spacetime are only related in that matter exists in spacetime, and can influence it in ways we don’t (or at least I don’t,) really understand.

          • OrangePumkin@piefed.nlOP
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            16 hours ago

            Anything that occupies space and has weight is matter. And yes, every matter exists in time.

          • ignirtoq@feddit.online
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            1 day ago

            Energy is not only a property of matter. Photons have energy, no mass, and are not matter but in fact force carrier particles.

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              Yeah, that sort of depends on the level of physics you’re talking about. regardless, it’s still a property of stuff even if that stuff is not always matter. if you want to go off on the weeds on that, go for it.

              even so, energy is not something that exists, but a quantified attribute of things that do exist.

        • Rioting Pacifist@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          I don’t think through is the right term.

          Mass distorts spacetime because that’s a thing that mass does, we can’t explain it any better than we can explain WHY apples fall from trees, we just have very detailed models for. HOW it works, and anything that has energy bends spacetime in the same way that mass does.

          • arctanthrope@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            the simple forms of conservation you probably learned in school are not entirely accurate. you probably learned that neither energy not matter can be created or destroyed; whatever you do, the mass you begin with will be the same as the mass you end with, and the same is true, separately, for energy. that’s not actually true; mass can be converted into energy, and vice versa. the correct form of conservation is that the combined mass-energy is constant. mass can be destroyed, but only if a proportional amount of energy is created. the coefficient of that proportionality is the square of the speed of light. that’s what E=mc² means. that’s how nuclear weapons work, and why they’re so powerful. c² is obviously a pretty big value, so when a small amount of matter is destroyed, it creates a large amount of energy

            similarly, energy can be converted into mass, but doing so makes it much “smaller.” c² units of energy will become 1 unit of mass. and mass, of course, interacts with space-time

        • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          What I never understood is why the electric field doesn’t distort spacetime more than gravity. The force between 2 electrons is like 4*10^42 times stronger than gravity. So a tiny electric field should cause the same spacetime bending as a massive object.

          • FrenziedFelidFanatic@pawb.social
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            2 days ago

            It does. The energy density of the em field will contribute to the stress-energy tensor that changes the metric of spacetime.

            Though the force itself is irrelevant

            • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              Though the force itself is irrelevant

              But force is a measure of the rate at which energy is transferred over a distance.

              So if one force is greater than another and the distance is the same, then the energy is greater in the case of the greater force.

              • mumblerfish@lemmy.world
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                14 hours ago

                Not really that simple. Is EM curving space time? Yes. But it does it in a very different way. EM is a force which couples to charges, magnetism, transferred by light. Gravity is a completely different beast. Super weak, but couples to everything. Mass? Yeah. Massless particles (light)? Yeah. The interraction strength itself is not an indication on how it affects the curvature of space (well, EM as a gauge theory is a curvature of a mathematical space, but gravity is one of physical space).

                As far as I know, none of the observed black holes (like in LIGO) have ever observed something that would be a charged black hole, but there is the theoretical formulation of one called a Reissner Nordström black hole. In that formulation you can see how adding charge and mass acts differently. For one thing, EM charge can be negative and positive, but either sign affects the spacetime the same, in a very simple way: the square of the charge appears in the expression. But mass only appears linear. Just as an example of how they play a very different role when it comes to curvature.

              • FrenziedFelidFanatic@pawb.social
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                2 days ago

                True. The em field is significantly more energetic, meaning that it contributes more to the stress energy tensor than the force of gravity

                But recall that the force of gravity is the momentum change “due to” the curvature of spacetime. The fact that the force of gravity can bend spacetime at all is a really weird second-order perturbative effect.

                These perturbative effects are typically described with a quantum field theory, but gravity has been thus far notably difficult to quantize.

                • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  But recall that the force of gravity is the momentum change “due to” the curvature of spacetime

                  But didn’t you just say that the electric field curves it too?

    • andresil@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      Hartle has a very simple way of viewing this, see photo from his textbook “Introduction to General Relativity” photo

      One thing to remember is that GR is still just a theory with a substantial lack of experimental proof, but the maths does work out quite well with it.

      • nnjwwl@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        I’m not sure what your definition of experimental proof is. There have been many experiments to test General Relativity over the past 100 years. As far as I know none of those experiments have found significant disagreement with the theory.

        • andresil@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          Here’s a paper about testing einstein’s theory:

          https://arxiv.org/pdf/0806.1731

          It is an older paper, but aftet a skim the only significant missing experiment is LIGO. At the scales which GR is fundamentally concerned we simply do not have sufficient data or technology to test.

          If we had tested everything that could be for GR or it had no contraditions we wouldn’t be creating modified theories of gravity or proposing new constants to try solve things, or trying to come up with some quantum theory of gravity.

      • lime!@feddit.nu
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        2 days ago

        that’s the same question. and by asking it, you have established a relation. so yes!

      • untorquer@quokk.au
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        2 days ago

        e=mc^2

        So

        c=√(e/m)

        Or actually do calculus but screw that let’s just speculate that a photon having a lessr infinite energy is equivalent to a lower speed of light. Therefore space has shrunk or time has expanded or the opposite or whatever.

  • Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org
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    2 days ago

    Can energy be associated with/related to spacetime ?

    Yes.

    Einstein has explained it with his “general relativity”.

    No, it is not easy enough to explain it here. Try the existing study material about the topic.

  • AnarchoEngineer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 day ago

    The Stress Energy Tensor is what you’re looking for. It is directly related to curvature, but beware, the explanations of both curvature and the stress-energy tensor are going to be difficult to parse if you aren’t familiar with tensors and their notation yet

  • suff@piefed.social
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    1 day ago

    I’d like to point out that it is suggested that information influences spacetime, too. That is, your RAM gains mass as soon as you boot your computer. It bends spacetime a tiny bit more if information is stored on it. So every trait of matter within spacetime turns out to be interconvertible:

    Mass Energy Information Mass.

    More craziness: In expanded spacetime, the amount of information on your RAM is decreased. With the energy you’re pumping in, it could store more.

    Even more craziness: Information could be the foundation of spacetime, building it though quantum entanglement. (ER=EPR conjecture, Mark van Raamsdonk)

    • Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org
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      1 day ago

      In expanded spacetime, the amount of information on your RAM is decreased. With the energy you’re pumping in, it could store more.

      If that’s the case, we should start building RAM in a different way: In such a way that this isn’t just a ‘could’ but a ‘can’.

      Information could be the foundation of spacetime, building it though quantum entanglement. (EP= EPR conjecture, Mark van Raamsdonk)

      But in my theory, it isn’t information. It is will power that is one the foundations, while information is just a property of will power.

  • Krusty@quokk.au
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    2 days ago

    Space has vacuum energy or ZPE (zero point.)

    Quantum mechanics suggests this should be mind-blowing and enormous. We’ve only managed to detect ‘weak static.’ some are still hopeful, others are just sad.