If AI worked, we would have had self driving cars by now.
I can’t think of anything good that we have today cause of AI that we didn’t have 5 years ago.
I rode in one last month, down the highway.
Even the most pessimistic reports of human involvement still puts them in the ‘mostly self-driving’ camp, and I’d rather have one with a fallback than one without.
Should I disbelieve my lying eyes?
It AI worked, we would have had self driving cars by now.
We don’t have self-driving cars because no corporation is insane enough to take on the liability for driving a fleet of cars on our highways - it’s a bloodbath out there (when you look at it from the large-scale view), and anyone operating 10,000+ vehicles out there is going to be involved in multiple fatal accidents per year.
When it’s UPS operating a fleet of trucks, the liability for the 30-ish people killed per year in collisions with their trucks is handled driver-to-driver. When “the robot” is out there up against the world, who’s the jury going to side with?
Yep juries will pick the person every time. You only need ONE that hits the headlines… bus load of kids, famous person etc and your brand is annihilated
If they have a similar rate of accidents as regular people, wouldn’t it be easier to mitigate risk through insurance since they are at scale?
You can go as far as to say that self driving manufacturers could insure their cars themselves since they have thousands of vehicles.
If what your saying is true, then insurance wouldn’t be profitable today
Insurance companies have resorted to denying everything and forcing their customers to sue them for their money. I’d say that’s a pretty good sign it isn’t actually profitable today.
Insurance is a numbers game: actuarial tables, predictable risk, predictable liability, and they do pay out occasionally, they even pay out ridiculously over-valued claims occasionally, as part of a numbers game that keeps their overall costs as low as possible.
Isn’t profitable? Insurance companies are definitely making profits because of their tactics of doing that to their customers,
Even from source documents fed to notebooklm, it has been confidently giving me wrong advice back to back. These non deterministic tools can be useful but can also be dangerous for our work.
it has been confidently giving me wrong advice back to back
You have been accepting its results as “confident” when you really should be verifying them independently.
Many things in this universe are NP hard - no way to solve without slogging through every possibility, but relatively easy to check once you have the answer.
People aren’t right 100% of the time. LLMs trained on peoples’ writings (often rando people on the internet) are also not right 100% of the time. You should verify anything you get from either source - it’s much easier to verify than to do the basic research yourself.
non deterministic tools can be useful but can also be dangerous for our work.
The most useful thing I have found for non deterministic tools to do? Have them create deterministic tools for me.
I’m so tired of every job posting frothing at the mouth over AI. “We’re ai native” , “we want employees who are excited about ai tools”, “agenic workflows”
Just fuck off.
Even if all of this stuff was a real productivity increase, who is keeping that extra production? Not the workers!
We’re ai native
I always interpret it as “ai naive”
They always want you to be excited about things that don’t benefit you in any way.
Because they’re blatantly using it to try and enslave us?
Like, not even metaphorically.
People find AI to be irritating because of its flaws and failure to deliver. They are also angry about big tech suggesting that AI will force real humans out of human spaces. The arts, media, research, science, the work force etc.
The “anxiety” is mostly fear of exactly what’s being promised at the detriment of the people expected to fund it. Anyone who’s got eyes and ears knows that the venture capital well will run dry eventually.
There is no return on investment for the vast majority of regular every day humans living in this world at this time. Not where AI is concerned. It isn’t hard to follow what is being marketed to its conclusion. Tech Oligarchs have been saying the quiet part out loud since the begining.
AI will replace workers. AI will replace people who make art and music, and write things. AI will replace.
They even tell us they know it’s a flawed replacement that they can’t make better. And they pretty much tell us that they haven’t found a way to monetize it so it’s sustainable which basically means one way or another they will be looking for people to pay more for it.
People have started thinking about what that means and naturally they don’t like it. Tech Bros are selling this dream of replacing us but we don’t have any money to pay more for a product that doesn’t produce anything worthwhile for the cost. Especially not if you’re replacing them and there is no safety net.
AI will replace workers. AI will replace people who make art and music, and write things.
This part made me think how I’ve commented recently that AI does the thing it was designed to do, but that the thing it was designed to do is generate something you could believe somebody wrote on the internet.
That doesn’t mean the answer is correct, of course. It’s often confidently wrong, just like real people online!
But when it comes to artistic expression, there is no clear right or wrong. Music, art, and the written word are some of the most human things we have, but you are absolutely right that they will be replaced. If a marketing director can pay Google a few dollars to generate a hundred concept drawings so they can do “I’ll know it when I see it” design, that’s a human artist job they won’t budget for.
Yeah, the entertainment industry is the one at legitimate risk from what we currently call AI.
There’s often a tacit acknowledgment to the poor quality of AI output, but that they do not care, the strategy is to flood the zone with so much garbage as to make it irrelevant. It’s a grift-conomy mindset, the focus is on “velocity” and “productivity” to the detriment of all else.
we’re living in a gish gallop society - politics, AI, it’s all overloading the polity with so many outrageous events they can’t react to the last one, much less the outrage 4 days ago… and unfortunately it’s working.
I don’t know any solutions - damn near anything you do will be labelled insurrection and treason, jfc, they’re suing SPLC for supporting white supremacist orgs for paying… informants.
ultra fucking stupid, but sadly effective, because most of america wants to stay out of politics and not confront the difficult shit ahead.
Fun fact: Data centers in the US are completely vulnerable to UAS attack vectors.
What is UAS? drones? Yeah but iran I don’t think can reach them, otherwise yeah
I’m not talking about Iran.
Keep talking, all kinds of people read open forums - and no matter how careful you think you are about protecting your identity, you’re unlikely to escape identification if you have been identified as a “person of interest in a high value investigation.”
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Canada?
That’s what people see
It’s not AI that’s the problem. AI is an amazingly powerful tool (I’m an AI researcher).
The problem is that it’s in the hands of psychotic technofascist greedy subhumans that want to destroy basically all of society so their stock can go up 0.001%. If we can cut out the source of the cancer, the body can begin to heal itself.
amazingly powerful tool
Is it? I keep hearing people keep parroting this but what big advancements have we made cause of AI?
As a developer, I keep hearing this but all I see is low quality software that is all smoke and mirrors. Pumping out low quality code at a high pace is worse than pumping out less but higher quality code.
Literally name any single industry with anything, and AI has vastly pushed it forward. It’s way to big to type here. Just off the top of my head: climate, pharmaceutical, other biomedical stuff (neuroscience, genetics, medical advances in every possible body system), energy (that alone has THOUSANDS of huge advances), science in general (astrophysics, geophysics, chemistry, agriculture, I mean every single scientific field). I’m listing every field I can think of, because it’s that pervasive.
The most visible advances which is just in like business/productivity for the sake of making money, I’d argue is the least important. It’s most important for a capitalist society that values profit over all else, but that’s a recipe for collapse, which is where we’re quickly headed.
You think AI has made improvements to our climate???
Can’t believe I read this on lemmy
lol please, go research something before you make any claims on it. No I’m not talking about datacenters fucking over the water supply or using fossil fuels, that’s bad obviously. Literally right now go google “AI used in climate science”. Just go do it. You’ll learn.
Are we talking about machine learning which has been around for a decade or generative AI? People usually mean the latter. Machine learning isn’t what caused the AI craze.
I honestly am curious in how an LLM could improve the climate in anyway.
And imo leaving the datacenters out is kind of a bad faith argument, it’s the only reason why it’s everywhere. It wouldn’t be a problem if it was basically a new computation tool used by niche professions.
go google what I said
It’s cute that you think you’re somehow different
aww thanks!
I want to agree with you, but AI is just another psychopath in a world where we don’t need any more psychopaths.
Right! If you don’t count the mass surveillance boost, the autonomous killing machines they’re trying to make, the environmental impact, the pillaging of our individual experiences, and the destruction of all our shared spaces online, AI is a pretty cool tool.
Electricity -> electrocutions
Gasoline -> fire bombs
Axes -> axe murders
we really need to get back to throwing rocks at each other, it’s much less environmentally impactful and puts us on a much more level playing field, only the rich control all these techno-marvels.
If you have anything else to add besides hyperbole now is the time. Otherwise I think we’re done here.
All of that is because the incentives are coming from those with the most power/money who are the most psychotic cancer cells in the history of the world. You’re only aware of such a tiny sliver of it because that’s the most problematic and gets the most news. Those are all huge problems that need to be solved, but the cause isn’t AI. AI is just an accelerant for a sick hypercapitalist society that is doomed to collapse. AI itself has been used for millions of great things that improve all of life on earth, but in the hands of these psychopaths it’s just being used for the ultimate triumph of Capital over Labor, at the expense of literally everything else on earth.
All those things being true is enough for me to hate AI.
Edit: As my dad says, One aw shit wipes away a million attaboys.
Do you hate the concept of iron alloy? Because it was used for hundreds of years in swords and weapons to kill millions of people. See how silly that sounds?
Iron alloy doesn’t convince people they shouldn’t have their noose visible in case someone might see it and intervene. You’re not going to change my mind. Once the bubble is popped and all our lives get worse and 3 people control all the technology it’s not going to matter that it saves people time, or it creates efficiency.
You’re not um… you’re not even reading, but ok. Keep living in your echochamber I guess.
Just because you don’t like my points doesn’t mean I’m arguing in bad faith, and I find it a little insulting that you’re trying to dodge instead of responding to my point by insinuating I am.
Narrator: actually, no it was not.
e.g. it still spreads misinformation.
Making no mistakes is a much higher standard than that which we hold to ourselves. Why are people moving the goalposts of intelligence or usefulness behind perfection?
Technology up to the dawn of the AI slop era was indeed expected to be perfect. When it wasn’t, we fixed it so it would be.
Why should AI be exempt from this? Techbros have convinced you that it should be so that their favourite lines go up.
There’s literally nothing more to it. A hammer is useless if it only drives 50% of the nails you hit with it. Why the fuck should we expect anything less than triple or quad 9 accuracy from AI if its so god damned “intelligent”?
B-b-be-be-because shut up you, that’s why!
Won’t someone think of the poor shareholders?
(/s)
Bc when I use a calculator, I actually DO expect literal perfection. And when I use google search, I expect it to be “useful”. And when I find information in Wikipedia, I expect it to be somewhat authoritative, even if incomplete. And if I use automative driving features, I expect them not to completely take over the wheel and crash me into a brick wall… or to a little child in a crosswalk right in front of me.
People who drive drunk lose their privileges to drive anymore. Employees who screw up that often get fired. Doctors who dispense incorrect medical advice lose their ability to practice medicine, plus get exposed to lawsuits. Counselors who tell their patients to kill themselves… Anyway, people DO experience the consequences of their actions, like ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
Whereas in contrast, AI is said that it is “going to be” great, not that it is great now. Fine, finish it and then we’ll talk. In the meantime, stop shoving it in front of my face.
If AI is like a human, it’s at best 2-year-old and at worst more like 6 months. It should not be “in charge”, e.g. of dispensing medical advice. But since it takes so much time to check its results for errors, it is literally slower and more painful to use it than to not use it (sometimes, often in fact).
You have a point somewhere buried in your mind, as revealed by the insightful first sentence, but your phrasing in the second sentence reads like sea-lioning and is not helping. Nobody is asking for “behind perfection” as that is literally mathematically impossible, and that is not what “moving the goalposts” means. It should not be enough to sound intelligent - we need to actually be such (same for AI as well).
And you have calulators.
And Google search has been spotty since the beginning.
And Wikipedia article quality … varies.
Like people, if you give AI a sufficiently complex problem, it won’t get it 100% right on the first pass. But, if you give it enough detail to distinguish an acceptable solution from an unacceptable one, it might get 80% of what you’re looking for on the first pass, boost that to 96% on the 2nd pass, 99% on the 3rd pass, and eventually what’s left is simple enough that it finally does get it 100% right.
Anybody who accepts the first thing AI tells them with today’s tech, is using it wrong.
Your “if” there is doing an awfully lot of the heavy lifting. Fwiw, I’m not talking special-purpose, custom-built LLMs - a large part of the problem is the lack of precision language uses to describe the concepts under discussion.
An example: https://lemmy.world/post/46390157
Another example: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/59584533
Both of these would be better called “cheating” than “AI”, but seeing as how AI both makes it easier and more to the point so many companies (such as Oracle) are literally pushing their programmers (those remaining anyway) to exclusively write programs using AI rather than by themselves, the very definition of “cheating” will need to be reexamined as a result.
In the examples also take note of how poor quality the LLM output is - e.g. regardless of whether the source is Grok or Claude or whatever, those therapy examples are not helpful in the slightest. Your counterargument might be that these are the “cheap” (aka free) AIs, but preemptively I will say in response: they still count as “AI”, especially in the context of the OP.
As far as “cheating” goes, ever since I got out of the game of paying a bunch of academics to judge and label me, I have been actively encouraged to “cheat” by the people who pay me money… that’s real life.
If you’re using a Ginsu knife to knead dough, you might not have optimal results. Claude is pretty good at code, since about 4-6 months ago. Grok? last time I asked Grok for anything it was the fastest LLM on the market, and the most non-sensical - usless trash.
I was excited about the idea of purpose-built systems trained on specific datasets to be help find complex patterns to diagnose diseases or suggest potential molecules for specific purposes.
Then the LLM shit started and everyone started fantasizing about intelligent “AI” just because it was able to reproduce patterns of language that seem relevant to a given input. Some of those funding it kept chasing that dream and are convinced that, if they just throw more compute at the problem, they can evolve the renaissance AGI that can do anything. Then they can fire every worker and be bazillionaires with robot slaves and never have to work another day of their lives… and fuck everyone and everything else.
It’s amazing what we can ruin when we let greed and selfishness drive our society.
everyone started fantasizing about intelligent “AI” just because it was able to reproduce patterns of language that seem relevant to a given input.
They’ve been fantasizing about that ever since “computers” started growing in accessibility - in the 1960s…
The current crop is just the first time such things have been delivered with something resembling “average” human responses.
The LLM craze is a natural maturation point of the AI field though, and now it’s expanded into foundational models (FM) which you would still probably just call LLMs because most people don’t know the differences. FMs are getting close to that point of a magical universal computer that you can tell it to do anything about anything and it just works. There are specific FM applications like FMs for earth science or remote sensing (which I work in), but the big money coming from this technofascist elite is pushing for FMs for everything along with Agentic AI, which is the ultimate state to replace pesky human workers overall. They seek the ultimate triumph of Capital over Labor.
There are competing incentives driving the industry, but by far the strongest one is coming from who has the most money, and those who have the most money are the worst possible people that should have no say in how anything works. Scary times we’re in.
At 1million i could already stop working and live decent life :/. I really don’t get why past 1billion they continue to search for more
They actually have a disorder or disease. However in this case their disorder is destroying the rest of the world. There’s a fast approaching point that the world organism will self-heal to prevent its own death.
It’s a sickness
Maybe it’s because I’ve only ever had at most a comfortable income but I truly don’t understand the mentality of needing so much money.
I don’t get paid as much as my peers but I make enough to be comfortable. I am my own department and, aside from emergencies and other high priority situations, I manage myself and choose what to work on when. I have a decent work life balance. Because I make enough to be comfortable (in large part because my landlord promised not to raise our rent - early in the COVID lockdown - if we were “good tenants” and has managed to keep true to her word) I don’t feel the need for more. That balance is worth not making the 20% more a year I might get somewhere else because I can’t guarantee I won’t have a shitty boss that doesn’t let me have that work/life balance.
The problem is that it’s in the hands of psychotic technofascist greedy subhumans
gee maybe people like you shouldn’t have put those tools into the shitbag’s hands?
I remember a decade ago multiple movements to reign in AI before it became uncontrollable, and any chance of that is long fuckin gone. we’re gonna barrel forward heedless of the danger, because fuck you that guy wants profits and doesn’t care about humanity.
and people like you made the tools and gave it to 'em.
I fucking work on climate models you jabroni. You have no idea about the industry or really anything other than what your most echochambered influencers tell you to think.
That seems terribly extreme. Its not like its a bomb that is obviously for blowing people up. Someone made something with some cool applications, then some guys with many times more money and resources than anyone should be allowed to have, took the idea and ran with it toward a bunch of psychotic ends.
The problem isn’t that people can use good things for bad purposes, nor is it the people that make or improve those things. The root cause is that western society is currently structured in a way that ends up rewarding certain types of madness, and the reward structure is set up such that individuals can get a vast undue amount of influence and power. Under these conditions, it is natural that even a tiny number of such individuals can overtake the system like a single cancer cell can eventually kill someone. All of these alarming things going on for over 60 years are symptoms of that societal illness. Please don’t blame scientists for sciencing.
bingo
The lack of regulation of AI is absolutely a serious problem, there are so many problems your comment isn’t even funny.
Problems with people using it for health advice.
Problems with teens using it instead of friends.
Problems with AI giving absurdly incorrect advice to people in general, but also professionals like managers and CEO’s.
Problems with data-centers that host these AI systems require enormous amounts of power. So much researchers have shown these data centers are drying up vast areas around the centers.The techno-fascists are in all sorts of business, that’s not special for AI. The problem is with AI the techno-fascists aren’t regulated in any way.
Neither how their data centers impact the environment and the electric grid, or how AI has actual bad effects for their customers, because there is no regulation on the use or supply of AI services.100% agree with every point you made. Everything you’re saying is specific to this iteration of LLMs though. That’s just one tiny piece (well large in terms of public perception and capital acquisition but small in terms of the research space).
-is an AI researcher -immediately uses Nazi lingo after introducing themselves
you can’t be more obvious than this about the ideology of AI💀
lol get offline a bit, not everything is Nazi everything. You’re saying “subhuman” is Nazi coded?
Indeed.
To cut off their data and revenue streams, stick to Open Source, locally run, models and chatbots.
Almost all research sharing is done through open source. Of course there are specific agreements between two companies if they wish to collaborate on private products, but the vast majority is just sharing a code base on github, writing a paper, and letting others review and try it out.
It’s amazing how open source has benefitted the individual. The monopolization of compute is still a barrier we’ll have to crash through
It’s always been that way, it’s just that until now the general public could say “well at least they pay me.”
So ironically this rise in anxiety is itself being driven by self-interest. People were fine with those people being in charge as long as they got a comfortable lifestyle out of it. A pattern seen throughout history.
For who is it growing? Is it the same people that use AI to “discuss” personal problems because the AI is always nice to them? (yes this is really a thing, especially with young people).
Or people who use AI to be “creative”?
Or the people that use AI to seek health advice?There are many good reasons to worry about AI, but my guess is that most the people that worry, do it for the wrong reasons.
Apart from the bad advice, and annoying AI customer services, and possibly taking jobs and potentially being a danger to humanity because leaders trust the AI. There may be a much closer and more imminent danger.The movie “Good Luck, Have Fun, Don’t Die” seemed a bit stupid when I first saw it, but goddam the movie has a point, that’s how it’s actually turning out for some people. They choose to live with an AI generated fantasy, created specifically to make them feel good!! A fantasy where they are always right, and are amazing artists, and where the AI is a better “friend” than actual friends.
I predict that AI will be worse than any cult in taking away family and friends.Yeah in the people that needs it to be useful for SOMETHING!
