Democratic Socialism has no ethical end game. It’s a compromise with the ruling class remaining the ruling class. It’s a slightly lesser evil, but still evil. It’s just another liberal hangout.
The end game is incremental progress by working within the systems that are in place to achieve gradual change.
It’s not about compromising with the ruling class. If any DemSoc is going about it that way, they’re doing it wrong.
Mamdani is doing great things for New York, none of which would be happening if because of some ideological purism he decided to stay home and be a keyboard warrior instead of getting into politics.
You’re quite rude. It would do liberals a lot of good to read some theory. They’d understand what the “tankies” are talking about rather than dismissing them as lunatics.
The best of the Democratic Socialist countries are still ran by child murdering shitbags. They’re probably gearing up to bomb schools alongside the US.
Also, you’re assuming I’m a liberal and that I haven’t read leftist theory. I understand what tankies are talking about enough to engage with it critically, which is apparently more than they do.
The best of the Democratic Socialist countries are still ran by child murdering shitbags
Do you mean Social Democracy countries? Because Democratic Socialism is a political party or persuasion, not a political system in its own right. What country is exclusively Democratic Socialist?
There are countries that are Social Democracies, and most of them have some of the best human rights track records out of all modern nations.
But if you want to cherrypick the most egregious examples of western nations and lump every western nation in with them under some collective guilt, while ignoring the infractions, crimes, and atrocities of all the non-western and anti-western countries, then I suppose you could make the argument that Social Democracies are baby murderers. It wouldn’t be a very good argument, but that just describes the layers of distortion you would have to put it through to reach that conclusion.
But keep blaming the Nordic model for the crimes of the US, I’m sure that strategy will convince somebody, just not me.
Oh and by the way, do you want to mention the millions of deaths under Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? Since apparently you’re juxtaposing “true” leftism against all the inferior or “untrue” leftisms as some sort of harbinger of moral superiority and respect for human lives?
Do you mean Social Democracy countries? Because Democratic Socialism is a political party or persuasion, not a political system in its own right. What country is exclusively Democratic Socialist?
A political party or persuasion? Which is it? It seems you don’t exactly have a clear idea on what it is. It is absolutely an ideology. Though it would like socialism, it prioritizes compromising with capitalism, much like social democracy. Is it really even worth trying to distinguish between the two?
But keep blaming the Nordic model for the crimes of the US, I’m sure that strategy will convince somebody, just not me.
The majority of Nordic countries are part of NATO. It’s a nasty terrorist organization.
Oh and by the way, do you want to mention the millions of deaths under Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? Since apparently you’re juxtaposing “true” leftism against all the inferior or “untrue” leftisms as some sort of harbinger of moral superiority and respect for human lives?
You pretend to be progressive, but fail to see true progressivism. I’m guessing you’re talking deaths due to famine, which were the majority of the deaths under those leaders, but conditions improved due to those leaders, and the people of course. Socialism is all about the collective. The role of the dictator of the proletariat is to keep the capitalists from returning to power, not oppress the people. You claim to not be a liberal, but you’re sure coming off as one, rude like one as well. Millions die due to capitalism every year. I’m not sure why you’re not bringing that up as well. Also, do note that you’re now defending capitalism. Not a real progressive thing to do.
Political parties are based on commonalities of persuasion. Democratic Socialism is primarily a political persuasion, but there are some countries with Democratic Socialist parties, which are obviously based on the persuasion. It wasn’t unclear, unless you’re deliberately trying to muddy the waters.
Both of those things are different from a political system, though. Social Democracies can have multiple political parties of various persuasions, because Social Democracy itself isn’t an individual party but a whole system within which various parties interact. There are social democratic parties, based on the goal of implementing policies that resemble how a social democracy would run.
The majority of Nordic countries are part of NATO. It’s a nasty terrorist organization.
Fucking vatnik.
You pretend to be progressive, but fail to see true progressivism.
Oh, so I guess “true progressivism” is Lenin ordering the Bolsheviks to assassinate all the Soviet leadership and replace them with sycophantic puppets because… he lost an election to them?
Millions die due to capitalism every year
I never denied that, and I don’t support capitalism.
I’m not sure why you’re not bringing that up as well.
Way to flip the fucking script. I brought up the deaths under Lenin et al as a response to you failing to mention them while pointing out the supposed deaths Social Democracy is allegedly responsible for. I even acknowledged that some western countries have committed war crimes, but I guess you’ll just breeze over anything that doesn’t reinforce your predetermined narrative?
Also, do note that you’re now defending capitalism.
I didn’t do that, but believe it or not I can be against bolshevism and capitalism. Not everyone is trapped in your narrow, campist worldview.
You think the russian federation isn’t a fascist and and ultra-capitalist oligarchy/kleptocracy?
Cause that’s what you seem to be insinuating when you suggest that supporting NATO makes me a fascist…
The entire world-order (Yes, including the PRC and the BRICS bloc) is capitalist. I can be against capitalism, while also supporting the defense pact that enables Europe to maintain a unified front against russian imperialist aggression.
Because economies and political institutions, although deeply interconnected, are two different things. And russian fascism isn’t any better than american fascism.
Democratic Socialism has no ethical end game. It’s a compromise with the ruling class remaining the ruling class. It’s a slightly lesser evil, but still evil. It’s just another liberal hangout.
The end game is incremental progress by working within the systems that are in place to achieve gradual change.
It’s not about compromising with the ruling class. If any DemSoc is going about it that way, they’re doing it wrong.
Mamdani is doing great things for New York, none of which would be happening if because of some ideological purism he decided to stay home and be a keyboard warrior instead of getting into politics.
You’re quite rude. It would do liberals a lot of good to read some theory. They’d understand what the “tankies” are talking about rather than dismissing them as lunatics.
The best of the Democratic Socialist countries are still ran by child murdering shitbags. They’re probably gearing up to bomb schools alongside the US.
What did I say that was rude?
Also, you’re assuming I’m a liberal and that I haven’t read leftist theory. I understand what tankies are talking about enough to engage with it critically, which is apparently more than they do.
Do you mean Social Democracy countries? Because Democratic Socialism is a political party or persuasion, not a political system in its own right. What country is exclusively Democratic Socialist?
There are countries that are Social Democracies, and most of them have some of the best human rights track records out of all modern nations.
But if you want to cherrypick the most egregious examples of western nations and lump every western nation in with them under some collective guilt, while ignoring the infractions, crimes, and atrocities of all the non-western and anti-western countries, then I suppose you could make the argument that Social Democracies are baby murderers. It wouldn’t be a very good argument, but that just describes the layers of distortion you would have to put it through to reach that conclusion.
But keep blaming the Nordic model for the crimes of the US, I’m sure that strategy will convince somebody, just not me.
Oh and by the way, do you want to mention the millions of deaths under Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? Since apparently you’re juxtaposing “true” leftism against all the inferior or “untrue” leftisms as some sort of harbinger of moral superiority and respect for human lives?
A political party or persuasion? Which is it? It seems you don’t exactly have a clear idea on what it is. It is absolutely an ideology. Though it would like socialism, it prioritizes compromising with capitalism, much like social democracy. Is it really even worth trying to distinguish between the two?
The majority of Nordic countries are part of NATO. It’s a nasty terrorist organization.
You pretend to be progressive, but fail to see true progressivism. I’m guessing you’re talking deaths due to famine, which were the majority of the deaths under those leaders, but conditions improved due to those leaders, and the people of course. Socialism is all about the collective. The role of the dictator of the proletariat is to keep the capitalists from returning to power, not oppress the people. You claim to not be a liberal, but you’re sure coming off as one, rude like one as well. Millions die due to capitalism every year. I’m not sure why you’re not bringing that up as well. Also, do note that you’re now defending capitalism. Not a real progressive thing to do.
Political parties are based on commonalities of persuasion. Democratic Socialism is primarily a political persuasion, but there are some countries with Democratic Socialist parties, which are obviously based on the persuasion. It wasn’t unclear, unless you’re deliberately trying to muddy the waters.
Both of those things are different from a political system, though. Social Democracies can have multiple political parties of various persuasions, because Social Democracy itself isn’t an individual party but a whole system within which various parties interact. There are social democratic parties, based on the goal of implementing policies that resemble how a social democracy would run.
Fucking vatnik.
Oh, so I guess “true progressivism” is Lenin ordering the Bolsheviks to assassinate all the Soviet leadership and replace them with sycophantic puppets because… he lost an election to them?
I never denied that, and I don’t support capitalism.
Way to flip the fucking script. I brought up the deaths under Lenin et al as a response to you failing to mention them while pointing out the supposed deaths Social Democracy is allegedly responsible for. I even acknowledged that some western countries have committed war crimes, but I guess you’ll just breeze over anything that doesn’t reinforce your predetermined narrative?
I didn’t do that, but believe it or not I can be against bolshevism and capitalism. Not everyone is trapped in your narrow, campist worldview.
The NATO supporting anti-capitalist. Meh. You’re a lost cause. I’m quite alright. I have better things to do than speak with a future fascist.
You think the russian federation isn’t a fascist and and ultra-capitalist oligarchy/kleptocracy?
Cause that’s what you seem to be insinuating when you suggest that supporting NATO makes me a fascist…
The entire world-order (Yes, including the PRC and the BRICS bloc) is capitalist. I can be against capitalism, while also supporting the defense pact that enables Europe to maintain a unified front against russian imperialist aggression.
Because economies and political institutions, although deeply interconnected, are two different things. And russian fascism isn’t any better than american fascism.
It gets better. Supporting NATO because you’re against imperialism. You truly are the progressivest.