Autistic.

I don’t have a special interest in trains. I do enjoy the movement of them and other transport though. The movement is calming to me.

I do collect playlists on my special interests. My biggest special interest at the moment is Ireland 🇮🇪 🍀🥰

(sory this got really long 😅 )

Appreciate this response and I’m 100% on the same page about what you said. Question for you - was my response to the other commenter argumentative? I was trying to agree with them and expand on the point so if it came off differently I’d actually like to know that!

I agree in terms of teaching moments and having productive discussions about all of this stuff. It can be hard to not let the emotions get in the way sometimes when you’re passionate (perhaps I did in my other comment? Definitely something I’m always working on!). I think that of all discussions, especially online it’s too easy to have arguments rather than discussions and part of that is also recognizing who is worth engaging with and who is really just not going to be receptive no matter how respectfully you communicate. That’s a hard part of these discussions online!

I absolutely agree about the disconnection - that’s all very true to my personal experience and definitely on a wider scale. I work in the disability industry (also studied mental health and the people I work with often have comorbidities in mental health as many with disabilities do).

It’s such a big conversation with so many moving parts; society, culture, financial, government, lived experience that ALL need to be involved in how we move forward if we want to see real change. Part of the struggle, I believe, is that there are a lot of people who may see change as an admittance of being wrong - which sometimes, yes it is. Sometimes it’s been just being wilfully ignorant, sometimes it’s been based on the available research, it’s a sliding scale of errors. That acknowledgement that professionals make errors (not just in individual cases, including research limitations and the wider systemic issues) seems to be a really big barrier I see.

I believe acceptance is important - and complicated. I think of this in terms of lived experience. Briefly, I am autistic and was misdiagnosed for a long time with mental health issues and on the “conveyor belt” of the system for over 20 years. I have definitely held a lot of anger around my experiences that has lessened (not gone, definitely not no anger!) but I think my situation is not unique. There are many people with similar experiences and I believe that it would be both healing for us (and help with the acceptance) and extremely beneficial for professionals in the system for us all to work together. Again, for acknowledgement and to truly be open to how do we change things so future generations are getting the support that they need and the industry of healthcare is adjusting and innovating.

Anyway, it is a huge conversation and I could go on lol. I have not heard of this Soteria Paradigm - I will look that up now, thanks for sharing!

Lastly, I’m not sure about you but I’m not American. I’m Australian. I think this discussion is very much global and nowhere (that I know of!) has mental health, or wider, healthcare “right”. There’s a lot of progress to be made everywhere.

Diagnosis can and does get retracted, or added to, altered etc. But only some get the spotlight. The rhetoric around autism being particularly misdiagnosed or “over-diagnosed” at the moment is really dangerous.

Yep my first diagnosis was 2004 and from that point I was on the conveyor belt, the lab rat, the guinea pig - exactly as you say. It’s really quite awful to think about teenagers who labelled themselves as guinea pigs. I’m a writer and it’s quite confronting to go over my teenage poetry and stories and realize how young I was and already describing myself as a science experiment, lab rat etc.

Seroquel is horrible. I am obviously biased, I am glad if it has helped anyone reading. Everyone I knew on it put on at minimum 20kgs. Imo, it’s one that deserves a huge expose and discussion like adderal (or equivalent, we actually don’t have adderal here!) has.

I think, in my experience, young males were labeled as ADHD and/ or just “bad” kids whereas young females were depressed/anxious/bipolar and a little later borderline personality disorder and/or just “bad” kids. (Can I ask if your experience fit this?)

So the misdiagnoses go wide sadly and whilst medication absolutely has its place I do think it’s often too quickly prescribed. I think it should be the last resort, not the first! The shitty thing is that it’s also seen as part of the process so, as far as I know, there’s very little recourse to take around misdiagnosis for these kinds of conditions. Did you get any “justice” yourself?

My heart aches for us all honestly, who were diagnosed so young with any medical condition wrongly that has had long term effects. We deserved better and it’s one of the reasons I advocate for the next generation to receive the support (not just diagnosis or medication) that will give them the best chance at a fulfilling life. I work in disability, sorry this is long, I’m passionate about these discussions! Take care of yourself!

Tbh, women wouldn’t admit to doing this either - there’s absolutely a shame around women having to make friends with an AI (because we’re meant to be innately social I guess). And I don’t think that other women realize that they are contributing to the issues of women feeling shame using AI by implying it’s a male issue and all about sex and toxic masculinity.

Like as a woman who has used AI, how am I supposed to feel about admitting that I’ve done something that only asshole, horny, incels do (according to a lot of people)?

So the stigma goes all ways and none of it helps anyone. People just need to be more curious than judgemental. Someone does something you don’t understand? That’s okay you don’t understand. Ask them why. Listen. Try to see a different perspective instead of just filling in the gaps with incel, men, sex, ugly, etc. etc.

Psychiatry is in need of reform. But people need to stop targeting autism as the condition that gets over-diagnosed or misdiagnosed. All conditions are getting misdiagnosed and mistreated in certain cases. Focusing on just autism (and ADHD) is ignoring a huge part of the problem - which to your last point is that PSYCHIATRY needs reform - on all levels for all diagnoses and all the things you mention because there are so many issues.

It’s just “easy” to reduce it to autism and ADHD are being over-diagnosed because big pharma. It’s ignorant AF and peddling out the easy targeted rhetoric and misinformation only contributes to the issues that the whole health system has. It’s not a 2D picture, you got to look at every side to get any inkling of the full picture.

You spoke about autism and bipolar. You don’t get amphetamines for either.

No. It’s actually really well documented why there’s been an increase.

Previously women were seen as less likely to be autistic and often considered for other diagnoses without considering autism. This was also the case for POC.

Secondly, until 2014 ADHD and autism were exclusive diagnoses - if you had one you couldn’t have the other. Now they have realized that they actually occur together naturally diagnoses for both have increased.

Asperger’s is no longer diagnosed in a lot of places (only since around 2015, depending on location) therefore these diagnoses are now joining autism diagnosis numbers.

Access to healthcare, more education, more research than ever before and an ever increasing understanding that autism can occur with or without a low IQ.

Naught to do with insurance and everything to do with fantastic people who have done a lot of research to deepen the understanding of autism and include previously excluded people in a diagnosis that has no exclusions (any colour, any gender, any IQ level, any culture, any age).

Exactly. It’s targeted. All medical conditions have some level of misdiagnosis. Mental illness and developmental disabilities. But people love to just zero in one diagnosis for this discussion which means it’s targeted and there’s an agenda behind it.

Nobody is getting an autism diagnosis to back up their comorbidities of depression and anxiety to get medication. If anything, people having a diagnosis of depression and anxiety is going to be a reason autism gets overlooked. If you want medication, you aren’t going to go through an autism assessment (cost, time, stress, etc) and then be like “oh yeah you know how I’m autistic, don’t you think that means I am depressed too? Pills please!” If that’s your thing you’d just go for the depression.

Autism has zero benefit trying to obtain medication and actually is LESS likely to go straight for medication because if you’re autistic then the first thing to do is make sure you’re not overloading yourself and managing your sensory issues and such before even determining IF there’s a reason to try drugs. Autisms first line of defense is environmental factors, self care, learning how to manage your energy and capacity, accommodations. The last resort is medication. Ffs I wish people would have a clue what they’re talking about sometimes.

I had somewhat similar but my autism and ADHD were overlooked until I was an adult. I was diagnosed with bipolar, schizo affective disorder and a scattering of others. I was put on;

Efexor 400mg - still can’t get off this though I am down to 225mg

Seroquel 1300mg - which is an insane dose. I was 40kg (teenager) when I started this medication, a year later I was 70kg. I am still struggling with my weight and down to 100mg. For context, they say 600-700mg is the standard for a severe schizophrenic adult. I was an underdeveloped teenager (as in underweight, “failure to thrive”, lack of nutrition etc) and I was not experiencing psychosis. I had years where I could barely get from the bedroom to the lounge room because I was that sedated.

Lithium - 1000mg.

And I would be here all night to list every medication. Seroquel was the worst - it has significantly reduced my quality of life and my life expectancy and contributed to developing other health conditions.

So the issue is ANY misdiagnosis. That’s the conversation to have. Mental illness and neurodivergent conditions are all extremely difficult to get right and that’s an important discussion to have. But when we start targeting one or two conditions; autism and ADHD, that’s not a discussion in good faith - it’s a discussion with an agenda.

I have cPTSD - which I have been told is from drumroll the medical system (as well as childhood trauma). Medical trauma is a true cruelty because sadly, you can’t avoid being re-traumatised because you can’t avoid the medical system… especially when you have chronic conditions and disabilities. You literally have to continue engaging with the system that has traumatized you. Repeatedly. Medical trauma is another important discussion.

Lol it’s not healthy to have an anti autism diagnosis campaign to begin with. The issue is that EVERY diagnosis will have people who find out later they were misdiagnosed. So it is targeted to just be discussing one or two diagnoses.

Nobody’s diagnosing/seeking a diagnosis of autism to get meds. There are no meds specifically for autism. That doesn’t make sense

The comparison they are making is that there was a stage where all of a sudden a bunch of people were claiming to de-transition and people believe it was a kind of co-ordinated thing to “prove” that transgender was just some kind of fad. OL is saying now that they are doing a similar thing with autistic people going back on their diagnosis and that the strings are being pulled by those who want to “prove” that autism is being over-diagnosed.

Essentially, it’s the “strategy” being used that’s comparable. It’s designed with an agenda.

I’ll consider this discussion when people start discussing how often people are misdiagnosed and mis-medicated for mental illnesses and other illnesses. But whilst it’s just a narrow attack on one or two diagnoses (autism and ADHD) it’s not a discussion that’s being had in good faith. It’s one with an agenda.

So what did they think it was? Because autism is linked to genetics so…

It’s all bollocks. I’m autistic. I was misdiagnosed as bipolar for 15 years including psychosis and sedated heavily for 15 years. THAT has had a major ongoing impact on my life. But there’s no “wave” of people who come out about being misdiagnosed as bipolar…or borderline personality disorder - both of which are common misdiagnoses for late diagnosed autistic people.

There’s a comfort in knowing who you are and being able to look after yourself and play to your strengths.

Anyone, with any diagnosis or not, can find a “reason” or “excuse” to not try or to be a shit person. That’s not exclusive to literally any demographic or diagnosis. Lazy people exist, bad people exist, etc. autistic, non autistic, man, woman, young, old, mental illness, whatever isn’t the thing that makes a person lazy, good, bad, etc.

Oh trust me a LOT of peoples instinct is to accuse autistic people of being “fakers”. It’s something autistic people without an intellectual disability deal with regularly from general public and the government (various ones, I’m not even in the US) aren’t helping at the moment.

And do people really believe that women don’t talk to AI companions, in various forms, too?

I’m a woman and I spoke to one of the apps for a while because I was bloody lonely (still am 🤷‍♀️). Had zero to do with men or murder. I didn’t have anyone, of either gender, to connect with.

It’s really easy to just reduce this to a male issue, a toxic masculinity, a male violence issue. We need to go deeper than that if we actually want to understand why people, men, women, everyone, use different AI.

But threads like this, with all the judgement, aren’t going to get a lot of people who admit they use/have used/have considered using AI. By just criticising/laughing, etc at people who do it, ironically, we turn more people towards the AIs.

I think you’re making some interesting observations. I definitely agree that it’s the easy answer to just dismiss people who use AI therapists, friends, relationships are just stupid.

You’re right that it says something about the system we live in and I extend that to society in general. We have a society who criticizes people for answering “how are you” honestly, who doesn’t have time for each other, who use terms like “trauma dumping” - so personally, I can see why some people are turning to machines whether it’s therapy or connection. It’s really bloody sad and it’s not a good solution but I can see the WHY behind it - which is what I think you’re also getting at.

We do need to listen to why people turn to these services and figure out what people aren’t finding in human connection that they are, or think they are, in machines. I don’t buy that an individuals intelligence has much to do with why people turn to AI.

Yeah disability history should actually be taught. I’m disabled and I work in the industry too. It’s sad how little the average person knows about the history of disability…yet they sure know a lot about over-diagnoses and all kinds of other headline crap 🤔🙄

I’m not in the US but absolutely, we had de-institutionalisation in the 90s here (Australia). There are plenty of adults who lived during that time and still flinch at certain actions (a harmless high 5 for example) because they’re conditioned to being hit. There are still plenty of adults who are institutionalised in their mindset and will never overcome that sadly (incredibly strict routines they can’t deviate from even though the routines themselves are damaging, no body autonomy or discretion, no ability to voice their opinion, needs and so on). It’s really sad to watch because their routine that can involve going to a day service program every day is obviously causing them distress but any suggestion of change to that schedule is also incredibly distressing. For a lot of people, that part of institutionalisation is irreversible and it affects their entire quality of life.

Scarily there are still staff in the industry that worked in those places too. I remember really not liking a coworker - I didn’t work with her directly but on the few occasions I’d seen her interact with clients I just thought she was disrespectful and old school. Then I had a client who used to say some things about her that I actually reported to management. Eventually someone mentioned in passing that this worker had worked at one of the biggest institutions in my state - the one that they teach us about in the disability certificate because of how abusive and horrific it was.

It is current history and the history of disability treatment and institutionalisation, abuse, neglect, murder, abandonment - all of this history has a trickle down affect - disabled people who haven’t necessarily faced all of those things often still know the history and carry the anxiety and fear around it - especially in the midst of these big public discussions that are happening in various countries. It’s essentially inter-generational trauma being handed down.

It also affects how non disabled people view disabled people - even without knowing it. Disabled people are often told they should “be grateful” for what we have now - even when we’re making a point about having our rights violated. The idea that disabled people are “lesser” is deeply ingrained in society. It’s not even conscious so it’s not always malicious but it’s just deep seated due to history.

( It IS malicious and wilfully ignorant if it’s pointed out to you and you double down on your ableist rhetoric. Recognizing and challenging our own prejudices is a skill worth having!)

I really wouldn’t be downplaying how the Nazis treated disabled people. They were literally experimented on, tortured while still alive in some of the most horrific ways until they died. Disabled children were taken from their parents (sometimes willing, sometimes not) and abused until they died. Some of the parents would realize that the situation was not what they thought it was and try to get their child back but couldn’t. There are letters from teenagers writing to their parents - “I am going to die here” (in the institution) because the parents weren’t able to get them out. Those kids did die. And we don’t even have the full scope of numbers because documentation was destroyed and deaths were simply labelled as pneumonia when there were clearly other things at play.

I don’t think comparison is helpful here. Disabled people have ALWAYS been treated like shit by a large amount of society and people in power. Some of it has changed over time, going back way further than the 1930/40s, some of it has improved but not as much as people would like to think sadly.

There’s still a lot of deep seated ableism that permeates through society which is why any progress in the way disabled people are spoken to, about and how we’re treated in general, is so incredibly painstakingly slow and often feels like one half step forward, whoaaa that’s a bit too much, shuffle back 3 steps!