you’re missing the main criticism of this guy, which is: better candidates only win primaries for seats when the seat is already D+30… therefore making a seat D+30 increases the chances of a decent candidate… meaning withholding your vote from the Ds to encourage decent candidates is actual sabotage
meaning withholding your vote from the Ds to encourage decent candidates is actual sabotage
That is only true if you vote. Particularly in primaries. The MLs are apathetic to actually doing so; as such they are disregarded. They need to show up and vote a suitable third party. Or spoil their ballot so that they show up as a countable protest vote that would sway such districts.
Simple abstinence is not only getting out of the way for fascism; it is indistinguishable from apathy and the apolitical. I am not missing the point from Grammar or the MLs.
Part of my criticism of the MLs is also that they are just unwilling to put at least a minimum level of work here. It can help us get some policies that we may want. It also helps build credibility for higher level protests and strikes. If you can get people to show up to vote you can also get some of them to realistically show up for other civil disobedience. That is a credible movement. Voting in the west is rather easy and carries little personal risk; compared to protests and strikes. If you cannot get your organization to do that then its safe to assume they won’t do much in other aspects of resistance; particularly those that carry personal harm.
Abstinence isn’t the best course. However passively voting in fascist collaborators is even worse
… how so.
… how is our current situation worse than it would be if we voted in Harris.
Situations can be horrific without being equally horrific; and picking the moral purity of what you filled in on a goddamn secret ballot over the lives of literal millions of human beings is not moral at all
Voting in Harris or any democrats is wasting revolutionary energy; energy that could be spent elsewhere doing real organising. It doesn’t matter who has the presidency. The democrats are only the moderate wing of the fascist republican party, so them having the presidency is tantamount to republican leadership, just more moderate.
mate drop the larp. you have the perfect time for revolution now, but none of you are doing shit and you will never do this revolution™
So hurry up and throw your larpy revolution now, or suck it up and admit that the democrats are your best option. you have either trump or democrats, those are your main options. Or you can leave the shithole US for a better country.
yanks are weak-willed and will never revolt. stop pretending you’re a revolutionary in waiting.
I’m not a yank, don’t know why you’re using 2nd person. Secondly, the conditions for revolution in America are non-existent. The working class is fragmented across a variety of things, most notably cultural issues. Thirdly, i myself am skeptical of a first-world socialist revolution and believe revolution in the third world to be the most expedient issue.
The democrats are not the best option. Time and time I’ve battled this idea in this community. The democrats continuously swing further and further to the right. What’s the evidence for this? Their unwaning drive to shirk everything to the left of them, no matter how moderate (see Mamdani and Sanders 2016).
What then is the best solution for America? Well that would have to be decided by the Americans, but if i had to give an opinion, it would be to organise within a third party (the green party). America is still in love with electoralism, so the next best step is to get people the fuck out of the democratic party and into a party that actually has a shot of moving left. This party isn’t the end though, just the means; to serve as a promotion ground for genuine revolutionary leftism.
Great job on being a useful idiot for fascists. Practice your sieg heil a little more, and they might even accept you as a genuine beefsteak
The democrats are only the moderate wing of the fascist republican party, so them having the presidency is tantamount to republican leadership, just more moderate.
You’re absolutely right, we’ve been getting more fascist with every election since Abraham Lincoln. /s
Oh, of course. You’re the “North Korea isn’t ethnonationalist and fuhrerprinzip isn’t fascist” guy. I should’ve known.
If you read my comments on the matter you will see that I agree. Voting isn’t the only thing we should be doing. Tankies are doing a dis-service to our movements by ignoring elections and not wanting to make a broader left leaning coalition.
Fair enough then. Though I’m not sure most tankies generally disagree on that point as Lenin himself promotes the idea to some extent. Then again, tankies generally don’t follow most of Lenin’s logic.
Tankies should at least help us on primaries to push left. At least there we can say that we really say we are being ignored. I think harm minimization is important for a short term. Particularly on state and local matters as those policies affect us more directly (on that level we can push back on hostile architecture).
In other posts I have elaborated that voting is also about making our movements known and adding credibility. A movement that can organize to show up and fill out a ballot can also show up for a strike, sit in, or other form of civil disobedience.
More over, at least in the west, voting comes with little personal harm and relatively small time commitment (not everyone is going to canvas or run). So its not that big an ask and they are letting us down by being so hostile to voting.
Abstinence isn’t the best course. However passively voting in fascist collaborators is even worse
Which is why we need to go to primaries, or even better make our own third party in places were we don’t have a green or similar.
you’re missing the main criticism of this guy, which is: better candidates only win primaries for seats when the seat is already D+30… therefore making a seat D+30 increases the chances of a decent candidate… meaning withholding your vote from the Ds to encourage decent candidates is actual sabotage
That is only true if you vote. Particularly in primaries. The MLs are apathetic to actually doing so; as such they are disregarded. They need to show up and vote a suitable third party. Or spoil their ballot so that they show up as a countable protest vote that would sway such districts.
Simple abstinence is not only getting out of the way for fascism; it is indistinguishable from apathy and the apolitical. I am not missing the point from Grammar or the MLs.
Part of my criticism of the MLs is also that they are just unwilling to put at least a minimum level of work here. It can help us get some policies that we may want. It also helps build credibility for higher level protests and strikes. If you can get people to show up to vote you can also get some of them to realistically show up for other civil disobedience. That is a credible movement. Voting in the west is rather easy and carries little personal risk; compared to protests and strikes. If you cannot get your organization to do that then its safe to assume they won’t do much in other aspects of resistance; particularly those that carry personal harm.
… how so.
… how is our current situation worse than it would be if we voted in Harris.
Situations can be horrific without being equally horrific; and picking the moral purity of what you filled in on a goddamn secret ballot over the lives of literal millions of human beings is not moral at all
Voting in Harris or any democrats is wasting revolutionary energy; energy that could be spent elsewhere doing real organising. It doesn’t matter who has the presidency. The democrats are only the moderate wing of the fascist republican party, so them having the presidency is tantamount to republican leadership, just more moderate.
mate drop the larp. you have the perfect time for revolution now, but none of you are doing shit and you will never do this revolution™
So hurry up and throw your larpy revolution now, or suck it up and admit that the democrats are your best option. you have either trump or democrats, those are your main options. Or you can leave the shithole US for a better country.
yanks are weak-willed and will never revolt. stop pretending you’re a revolutionary in waiting.
I’m not a yank, don’t know why you’re using 2nd person. Secondly, the conditions for revolution in America are non-existent. The working class is fragmented across a variety of things, most notably cultural issues. Thirdly, i myself am skeptical of a first-world socialist revolution and believe revolution in the third world to be the most expedient issue.
The democrats are not the best option. Time and time I’ve battled this idea in this community. The democrats continuously swing further and further to the right. What’s the evidence for this? Their unwaning drive to shirk everything to the left of them, no matter how moderate (see Mamdani and Sanders 2016).
What then is the best solution for America? Well that would have to be decided by the Americans, but if i had to give an opinion, it would be to organise within a third party (the green party). America is still in love with electoralism, so the next best step is to get people the fuck out of the democratic party and into a party that actually has a shot of moving left. This party isn’t the end though, just the means; to serve as a promotion ground for genuine revolutionary leftism.
if you’re not a yank why are you whining about their democrats and republicians? leave the yanks to their shithole
Because yank politics is the most prevalent political discourse on the fediverse
then from an outside perspective, you must realise that yanks only have two options for their government.
At present yes. If you read what i wrote you’ll see that they can create a third
Yes, I’m sure the whole 20 minutes used to fill out a ballot is just destroying the will of The People to Do Revolution.
How many dead Iranians are you telling that to? How many folk in the developing world?
Great job on being a useful idiot for fascists. Practice your sieg heil a little more, and they might even accept you as a genuine beefsteak
You’re absolutely right, we’ve been getting more fascist with every election since Abraham Lincoln. /s
Oh, of course. You’re the “North Korea isn’t ethnonationalist and fuhrerprinzip isn’t fascist” guy. I should’ve known.
There are more than just presidential elections; which tankies ignore as well.
Any of those is a dead end, if you don’t couple it with separate leftist organising.
If you read my comments on the matter you will see that I agree. Voting isn’t the only thing we should be doing. Tankies are doing a dis-service to our movements by ignoring elections and not wanting to make a broader left leaning coalition.
Fair enough then. Though I’m not sure most tankies generally disagree on that point as Lenin himself promotes the idea to some extent. Then again, tankies generally don’t follow most of Lenin’s logic.
Tankies should at least help us on primaries to push left. At least there we can say that we really say we are being ignored. I think harm minimization is important for a short term. Particularly on state and local matters as those policies affect us more directly (on that level we can push back on hostile architecture).
In other posts I have elaborated that voting is also about making our movements known and adding credibility. A movement that can organize to show up and fill out a ballot can also show up for a strike, sit in, or other form of civil disobedience.
More over, at least in the west, voting comes with little personal harm and relatively small time commitment (not everyone is going to canvas or run). So its not that big an ask and they are letting us down by being so hostile to voting.