I don’t know how relevant this is now, but here’s a link to another post where I expressed my thoughts on what kind of pitfalls you might most likely face – https://lemmy.world/post/36867409

By the way, what is this phenomenon on Lemmy? Let’s say people are reluctant to read and comment on old posts published just a couple of days or a week ago, but with new ones, it’s a completely different story. What kind of psychology is this? Or it seemed to me?

  • Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 hours ago

    but any supplier can take share and profits by increasing supply

    Increasing supply in almost every industry requires more labor though. With UBI you get a labor shortage though as less people will work, and the people that do work will be demanding higher wages like you said, pushing up the price of the finished goods.

    This is the problem with UBI , it focuses only on demand and consumption on the assumption that increasing them will magically make supply increase to match. But demand doesn’t create supply, labor does, its the core of productivity. Someone’s gotta be making the food we all get to eat, and caring for you when you’re sick or old etc. If more and more of those people decide to go on UBI then there will be less of those to go around and the supply that will be available will be expensive as the people that continue working will demand a higher wage for there service.

    UBI + homelessness means you can afford a shoebox and a lifestyle…

    Not sure what you mean by this, by homeless do you mean unemployed and a shoebox just means a small APT, or do you mean actually homeless and a shoebox is just a PO box to have a permanent address? Assuming you mean the former, again you aren’t building more shoeboxes so that shoebox that the homeless person wants to rent with there UBI is probably currently occupied by a person who will use all there UBI to bid up the rent so that they can keep there housing as theyre now competing with those homeless people with UBI to keep from being homeless. This works further up the housing ladder as each tier will bid up prices to maintain there housing in the face of rising competition from the lower tiers who now have UBI. So rents increase, but the housing situation for everyone remains the same.

    As for the jobs guarantee it doesn’t have to be, nor should it be for most people, digging holes and filling them in. The other benefit of it is that we as a society can decide on what work is useful and not the market. Under this a job could be caring for your dependents at home, building green infrastructure, environmental restoration, building affordable housing etc. work that the current market based system doesn’t value. With UBI you keep that market system of labor and that work doesn’t get done but a lot of socially destructive work like say running a casino keeps going.

    UBI actually makes it harder for the government to do these projects as the government wouldn’t have the money for it and labor prices would also go up. It’ll be hard to build actually affordable housing if all the government budget is going to UBI and construction workers now cost twice as much in wages.

    UBI works on the assumption that there’s not enough work to be done and that a sizable chunk of the population can stop working and we’ll be fine. That’s not true, not only do we have to keep working on all the things we currently are, we need to do more to transition to net zero and figure out how to sequester millions of tons of CO2 out of the atmosphere, that’s not going to happen by itself.

    • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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      30 minutes ago

      With UBI you get a labor shortage though as less people will work, and the people that do work will be demanding higher wages like you said, pushing up the price of the finished goods.

      People will work if they get a good enough offer. That a company’s competitors hope that slavery returns after UBI is implementented is an opportunity for those companies who understand that it will stay forever and hire the people they need to take consumers money. Where imports from slave labour nations is an option, as it mostly is today even with tariffs, then imports can displace higher housing spending. Immigration, AI, Robotics are all alternatives if no one wants to work, and if no one wants to work, everyone is happy to not have to work, and still get cheap enough products.

      The other benefit of it is that we as a society can decide on what work is useful and not the market.

      Market is absolutely better at deciding what is useful. There still can be functions that are best/only provided by government, and need staff, but those should be proposed government functions/programs because the programs are good. A job guarantee is first you must sacrifice 8 hours per day, then we decide what’s best for you to spend your 8 hours on.

      caring for your dependents at home

      UBI allows for caring for people/dependents. You don’t need unionized child/dependent care. If I am caring for someone full time already, by all means, bring your dependents to me for extra income for me. UBI can make me more friendly to community on setting a fair price compared to slavery, union supported slavery, economy that forces extortionist pricing for care.

      It’ll be hard to build actually affordable housing if all the government budget is going to UBI and construction workers now cost twice as much in wages.

      Social housing in much of the world is “income based rent” that rewards getting a 3 bedroom space even if you are single. Rules disallow sharing, and there may be other stupid/oppressive rules too. The best bargain is to only earn grey/black market income to make the housing free. UBI is a far better housing solution. I previously mentioned sharing, or if you are not interested in work, moving to a community where work availability is a non-concern. Expensive housing is exclusively because work opportunities are awesome, or it is a tourist paradise (often convenient for part time work). Welfare/unemployment insurance rules often stipulate that you are not allowed to move.

      UBI works on the assumption that there’s not enough work to be done and that a sizable chunk of the population can stop working and we’ll be fine.

      UBI only needs to work on principle that you deserve an equal share of tax revenue. Our slavery system works on principle that Oligarchists best rewards are only from slavery, and that paying higher wages to attract people with “fuck you” money cannot possibly be profitable. It’s an argument for even harsher slavery conditions. Oligarchs, and only oligarchs, must decide the only possible economic path.

      we need to do more to transition to net zero and figure out how to sequester millions of tons of CO2 out of the atmosphere, that’s not going to happen by itself.

      Concern for human sustainability only occurs when your next voting decisions is not based on inflation resulting from yet another failed war on Russia. Poverty and stress makes you full tropic thunder, and short sighted. War mongering Zionist supremacism pillaging of your country is too hard to see, if Biden caused egg prices is all the media tells you to base your vote on. Cooperation with Russia is needed to get global warming constrained. Threatening Russia just burns more diesel.