I would consider myself fairly anti-Zionist and somewhat pragmatic in addition. I understand that collateral damage is unavoidable, especially when fighting at a disadvantage.
But saying that civilians being murdered is their own fault for being part of Wrong Tribe, and that deliberately killing civilians isn’t terrorism, just ‘resistance’, is fucking lunacy.
It reminds me of when tankie bootlicks started talking about how it might be okay to do genetic testing to determine which Jews are ‘allowed’ to stay when Israel is destroyed. You know, rather than… how long they, as a person, had been there; for all their life, cradle to grave, say. What really matters is that the blood is PURE.
Fucking self-proclaimed ‘leftists’ are out here fucking reinventing blut und boden nationalism.
I guess this is just their form of socialism in a national context. /s
It reminds me of when tankie bootlicks started talking about how it might be okay to do genetic testing to determine which Jews are ‘allowed’ to stay when Israel is destroyed. You know, rather than… how long they, as a person, had been there; for all their life, cradle to grave, say. What really matters is that the blood is PURE.
linky?
Holy shit that is wild.
I posted it on MoG, but I don’t remember the title.
What’s so disgusting is that these people are essentially saying “Oh, a little rape and murder of civilians is acceptable, they are savages after all, they don’t know any better”.
Like, the most generous interpretation of their stance is that they look down on the Palestinians as a people.
I think leftists can sometimes get a bit tied in knots over this stuff, because we need to defend anti-imperialist action and there are a shitload of bad faith arguments about Hamas. Most of it is pretty typical whataboutism. A state is perpetrating a genocide against Palestine and has been doing so for decades at this point. The resistance against it could commit a hundred Oct. 7s and not come close to the level of violence committed against the Palestinian people. It’s very understandable to handwave it away and dismiss it, but yeah, we should just briefly accept that violence against innocent people is wrong and immediately turn it back to Israel, who, by far, hurt and kill way more innocent people than Hamas ever could.
It’s very understandable to handwave it away and dismiss it,
I very much disagree. Handwaving it and dismissing it misses the entire point of why deliberately murdering civilians is bad.
but yeah, we should just briefly accept that violence against innocent people is wrong and immediately turn it back to Israel, who, by far, hurt and kill way more innocent people than Hamas ever could.
I don’t know about ‘ever could’ - if the IDF was entirely incompetent instead of just vile, I wouldn’t trust Hamas not to simply play this card in reverse. Their long history of antisemitism remains… suspect. On top of being theocratic loons.
But that’s why Israel supported Hamas to undermine Fatah. Much easier target for Israeli PR.
If we’re willing to handwave away the civilian murdering, then what do we have against the IDF? Like, that’s the reason I don’t like them, and that’s also the reason I don’t like Hamas
Turns out the situation there is morally very simple as long as you dehumanise either side.
Spoiler - the situation is anything but simple, morally or otherwise.
Worth noting that LeninWeave is an old-time Hexbear user of over five years. I believe they’re also the moderator of several Matrix channels for Hexbear?
Can we get links to the threads? I feel like I’m being manipulated, I don’t even know what the guy was responding to.
Fucking go wild, man, each comment thread is worse than the last
EDIT: Thread was locked long before I posted it, mind you. Don’t vote brigade or anything. I only provided this because I was requested to.
Welp, looks like he started the whole thing off an old comment he found. He was looking for a fight by directly going with the most controversial statement he could find.
That being said, I don’t like this whole line of thinking from both sides tbh, I think its jumbling up a lot of things together.
It implies Israel is fighting Hamas in a kind of greater evil vs smaller evil scenario. It’s similar to the whole “Israel is defending itself” line.
From my point of view, Israel is waging war on civilians mostly. Hamas is a non issue that can only deal the damage Israel let’s them.
Terrorist groups can’t be defended, but they can’t be used as justification for wholesale slaughter of a civilian population either. That’s the main issue that I think gets people riled up.
Thanks for the link.
Welp, looks like he started the whole thing off an old comment he found. He was looking for a fight by directly going with the most controversial statement he could find.
That’s not even the most controversial statement in the thread, man.
From my point of view, Israel is waging war on civilians mostly. Hamas is a non issue that can only deal the damage Israel let’s them.
I would agree. I would go so far as to say that calling it war is generous. It’s nothing more than a genocide. Hamas isn’t much more than a cat’s paw for Israeli domestic politics - which makes the defense of their targeting of civilians (something both morally abhorrent and without significant gain for the Palestinian people) all the more ridiculous. At least, ridiculous from an anti-Zionist point of view.
Terrorist groups can’t be defended, but they can’t be used as justification for wholesale slaughter of a civilian population either. That’s the main issue that I think gets people riled up.
The main issue in the real world (thankfully). Unfortunately, on the Fediverse, there’s a fairly large contingent of folk who think that ethnic cleansing is Good, Actually, if it’s pointed towards Israelis.
Thanks for the link.
np
Leninweave even made a meme that calls for genocide against Germans.
Unsurprising. What’s with MLs and the weird anti-German thing? It’s not even ‘anti-Germany’, they’re very particular about voicing how much they dislike German people.
I think its because some Germans, because of the holocaust, dont want to criticize Israel as they see it as antisemitism, not able to distinguish between religion and state
Can you add an edit that the thread is locked and tell people not to vote on it?
Sorry I think my reading compression is awful. Where does anybody say (or imply) that killing civilians is good/ok? I only see a discussion of what a terrorist is
Denying that deliberately killing civilians is terrorism, and saying “All violence in a settler colony, including the violence perpetrated by and against the colonizers, is the fault of the colonizers”
